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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5576616" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Because that would be a different thing.</p><p></p><p>I'm with many others in not seeing why you regard "aware that XYZ" as equating to "acting rationally in light of the awareness that XYZ". This equation isn't true even for most human beings - why would it be true for an ooze?</p><p></p><p>This goes back to the "flag" issue. If it is just a flag, then why not just write it on the sheet? Unless you have some sort of <em>resolution system</em> for being a good musician, why is it important to spend PC-build resource points on it?</p><p></p><p>Or are you envisaging that the resolution system would be d20+skill and whoever gets the highest score gives the best performance? But this then gives rise to the question that Crazy Jerome in particular has talked about, namely, how are we going to cost that skill in a fantasy adventure game?</p><p></p><p>To come at the issue from a slightly different angle - the game has no "I'm a noble" skill. Yet presumably being a noble makes a difference in some challenges - everything else being equal, commoners may be more likely to listen to someone who instructs them to address him as Your Grace, for example. How would you handle this in a skill challenge? Perhaps grant a circumstance modifier to the Diplomacy check in question - +2 for an obsequious audience, -2 for rebels. Anyway, however you would take into account this non-mechanically represented element of the fiction in resolving the action, take a PC's background "skilled musician" into account in the same way.</p><p></p><p>I don't think this is true - see below.</p><p></p><p>No PC-build element called a skill is involved in resolving the challenge mechanically. That doesn't mean that no fictional skill possessed by one or more of the PCs is involved.</p><p></p><p>The easiest way to resolve your contest would be for each player to roll a d20 and add CHA - hey, now we'ver found out that Suzy's Warden is a better piper than Bob's Warlock!</p><p></p><p>There are other, more sophisticated ways it could be done, too.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Unforunately I can't XP these excellent posts.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5576616, member: 42582"] Because that would be a different thing. I'm with many others in not seeing why you regard "aware that XYZ" as equating to "acting rationally in light of the awareness that XYZ". This equation isn't true even for most human beings - why would it be true for an ooze? This goes back to the "flag" issue. If it is just a flag, then why not just write it on the sheet? Unless you have some sort of [I]resolution system[/I] for being a good musician, why is it important to spend PC-build resource points on it? Or are you envisaging that the resolution system would be d20+skill and whoever gets the highest score gives the best performance? But this then gives rise to the question that Crazy Jerome in particular has talked about, namely, how are we going to cost that skill in a fantasy adventure game? To come at the issue from a slightly different angle - the game has no "I'm a noble" skill. Yet presumably being a noble makes a difference in some challenges - everything else being equal, commoners may be more likely to listen to someone who instructs them to address him as Your Grace, for example. How would you handle this in a skill challenge? Perhaps grant a circumstance modifier to the Diplomacy check in question - +2 for an obsequious audience, -2 for rebels. Anyway, however you would take into account this non-mechanically represented element of the fiction in resolving the action, take a PC's background "skilled musician" into account in the same way. I don't think this is true - see below. No PC-build element called a skill is involved in resolving the challenge mechanically. That doesn't mean that no fictional skill possessed by one or more of the PCs is involved. The easiest way to resolve your contest would be for each player to roll a d20 and add CHA - hey, now we'ver found out that Suzy's Warden is a better piper than Bob's Warlock! There are other, more sophisticated ways it could be done, too. Unforunately I can't XP these excellent posts. [/QUOTE]
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The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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