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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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<blockquote data-quote="Mallus" data-source="post: 5579323" data-attributes="member: 3887"><p>I missed that. But I think it says something about the designer's view of mission non-critical skills like Perform that it wound up as a mention, not in the actual skill list. BTW, I really like the way the SW books include sidebar stuff like that. WotC products would benefit from (more of?) that kind of thing. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Not by much. Several SW skills (Shooting, Throwing, Fighting) aren't handled by the skill system in 4e, and Guts isn't handled at all (to name 4 skills). </p><p></p><p>Besides SW uses the same <em>kind</em> of skills as 4e: extremely broad categories which ignore specifics. A SW character with Piloting can pilot any vehicle that exists in the setting. In both systems, Stealth covers a range of sneaky activities -- in fact, SW's Stealth is even broader than 4e's -- it includes everything except picking a lock. </p><p></p><p></p><p>This is true... with the caveat that the SW rules clearly state a player should only pay for skills which they have to roll tests for at least twice per session. Which places the focus squarely on skills which are actively used in the game, and not just present for theoretical PC well-roundedness, or as nod towards some form of "simulation". </p><p></p><p>The implication is skills that are mainly decorative/tangential to actual game play should be free, or absent from the character sheet entirely. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Strictly-speaking this is right... but thanks to differences in the task resolutions systems (mainly via the wild/exploding die), SW character start off with fairly broad competencies, and while skills don't scale a la 4e'a +1/2 level bonus, neither do the DC/target numbers for most tests (usually 4, right?).</p><p></p><p>So both systems end up in the same place: with broadly-competent PC's which <em>excel</em> in a few, specific areas (and whose non-adventure related skills aren't addressed system).</p><p></p><p>Also, SW, bless it's designers hearts, seems to have avoided the trap of adding more skills to the game willy-nilly through each new expansion/setting book (though they do add quite a few Feats/Edges). They realized by adding more narrowly-defined skills <em>without</em> a corresponding amount of additional skill points results in over-specialized characters increasingly defined by the things they <em>can't</em> do, not the things they can.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mallus, post: 5579323, member: 3887"] I missed that. But I think it says something about the designer's view of mission non-critical skills like Perform that it wound up as a mention, not in the actual skill list. BTW, I really like the way the SW books include sidebar stuff like that. WotC products would benefit from (more of?) that kind of thing. Not by much. Several SW skills (Shooting, Throwing, Fighting) aren't handled by the skill system in 4e, and Guts isn't handled at all (to name 4 skills). Besides SW uses the same [i]kind[/i] of skills as 4e: extremely broad categories which ignore specifics. A SW character with Piloting can pilot any vehicle that exists in the setting. In both systems, Stealth covers a range of sneaky activities -- in fact, SW's Stealth is even broader than 4e's -- it includes everything except picking a lock. This is true... with the caveat that the SW rules clearly state a player should only pay for skills which they have to roll tests for at least twice per session. Which places the focus squarely on skills which are actively used in the game, and not just present for theoretical PC well-roundedness, or as nod towards some form of "simulation". The implication is skills that are mainly decorative/tangential to actual game play should be free, or absent from the character sheet entirely. Strictly-speaking this is right... but thanks to differences in the task resolutions systems (mainly via the wild/exploding die), SW character start off with fairly broad competencies, and while skills don't scale a la 4e'a +1/2 level bonus, neither do the DC/target numbers for most tests (usually 4, right?). So both systems end up in the same place: with broadly-competent PC's which [i]excel[/i] in a few, specific areas (and whose non-adventure related skills aren't addressed system). Also, SW, bless it's designers hearts, seems to have avoided the trap of adding more skills to the game willy-nilly through each new expansion/setting book (though they do add quite a few Feats/Edges). They realized by adding more narrowly-defined skills [i]without[/i] a corresponding amount of additional skill points results in over-specialized characters increasingly defined by the things they [i]can't[/i] do, not the things they can. [/QUOTE]
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The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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