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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
The "We Can't Roleplay" in 4E Argument
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<blockquote data-quote="Greg K" data-source="post: 5580359" data-attributes="member: 5038"><p>I won't say it prevents me from role-playing. However, it does affect how I role-play the character and my desire to play the game. </p><p></p><p>1. When the mechanical representation does not represent the character being played, it can lead to problems with certain groups or players.</p><p></p><p> Ignoring specific aspects of what is covered under a skill to represent a character is considered a dick move by some players or groups. I have seen players that would not bat an eyelash if a rogue in 3e did not take open locks or sleight of hand, complain that when a character ignored an aspect under a broad skill system. The result is that you can't roleplay the character you imagined despite the character being acceptable under a less broad skill system.</p><p></p><p>2. In a game like Cinematic Unisystem, when using licensed characters, the broadness</p><p>a. does not give a player unfamiliar with the licensed character a good mechanical representation of the character portrayed. </p><p></p><p>b. Often the character is given a more broad range of competence or different levels of competency issues in multiple areas covered a broad skill are not represented.</p><p></p><p>c. with certain groups of players, you run into #1 above.</p><p></p><p>3. If the character is not mechanically represented how I envision, it lessons my desire to play the system, because at some point, it results in a dissonance between the character envisioned and the game-play for myself.</p><p></p><p>And, this does not cover my desire to run the game.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No problem</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>First example that comes to mind? Deadlands:Reloaded Second Printing adds Tribal Medicine (Spirit) as the governing skill for the Shaman's Arcane Background (Shamanism).</p><p></p><p>I know from PEG's boards, there are a couple of others between PEG's products and third party partners. One of the Tale from the [x] introduced one or two new ones. I just can't recall if it was Space Lanes or Sprawl that did it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>It is still a new skill. Unlike say d20 Modern or 3e which gives a set list of areas for knowledge, Savage Worlds has no set list of knowledge specialties. Each knowledge skill in Savage Worlds is a new skill dependent upon the campaign. They are always changing with the GM adding new specialties as needed.</p><p></p><p>Then, there is the Peform skill as suggested.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The expected range of challenges changing may be the default of assumption, but anything that was a lower level challenge at the lowest levels still remains the same level if the character encounters it again at later levels. The higher level character now had improved chances even if unchanged. In Savage World, the untrained Legendary character still has the d4-2.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Greg K, post: 5580359, member: 5038"] I won't say it prevents me from role-playing. However, it does affect how I role-play the character and my desire to play the game. 1. When the mechanical representation does not represent the character being played, it can lead to problems with certain groups or players. Ignoring specific aspects of what is covered under a skill to represent a character is considered a dick move by some players or groups. I have seen players that would not bat an eyelash if a rogue in 3e did not take open locks or sleight of hand, complain that when a character ignored an aspect under a broad skill system. The result is that you can't roleplay the character you imagined despite the character being acceptable under a less broad skill system. 2. In a game like Cinematic Unisystem, when using licensed characters, the broadness a. does not give a player unfamiliar with the licensed character a good mechanical representation of the character portrayed. b. Often the character is given a more broad range of competence or different levels of competency issues in multiple areas covered a broad skill are not represented. c. with certain groups of players, you run into #1 above. 3. If the character is not mechanically represented how I envision, it lessons my desire to play the system, because at some point, it results in a dissonance between the character envisioned and the game-play for myself. And, this does not cover my desire to run the game. No problem First example that comes to mind? Deadlands:Reloaded Second Printing adds Tribal Medicine (Spirit) as the governing skill for the Shaman's Arcane Background (Shamanism). I know from PEG's boards, there are a couple of others between PEG's products and third party partners. One of the Tale from the [x] introduced one or two new ones. I just can't recall if it was Space Lanes or Sprawl that did it. It is still a new skill. Unlike say d20 Modern or 3e which gives a set list of areas for knowledge, Savage Worlds has no set list of knowledge specialties. Each knowledge skill in Savage Worlds is a new skill dependent upon the campaign. They are always changing with the GM adding new specialties as needed. Then, there is the Peform skill as suggested. The expected range of challenges changing may be the default of assumption, but anything that was a lower level challenge at the lowest levels still remains the same level if the character encounters it again at later levels. The higher level character now had improved chances even if unchanged. In Savage World, the untrained Legendary character still has the d4-2. [/QUOTE]
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