The whimsical element of D&D vs AD&D

[MerricB]

I am brought to mind with recent posts about Frank Mentzer how much I dislike his module, Needle. It is one of TSR's series of adventures that was first seen in a tournament setting, and has a really good first part, a mediocre second part, and a truly terrible and bizarre third part where the PCs end up on a moon negotiating with alien spiders that are played as much for the humour value of it as anything.

I ran it back in the 80s, and yes, we had a good time at the beginning and things deteriorated from there.

I wonder if it wasn't published in the wrong game line? Would it have seemed more correct if it was part of the BECMI line? I suspect it may have been.

For me, at least, AD&D was about the serious side of D&D. Basic D&D was where strange mad things took place - over the top kingdoms and the like.

This isn't to say that AD&D doesn't have the strange and bizarre: witness the "Alice" modules of Gygax, along with "Isle of the Ape" and "Expedition to the Barrier Peaks". However, those adventures, despite their whimsical touches, are played straight and are extremely deadly: insane inhabitants that can and will kill your PCs!

Tracy Hickman also loved the odd - Prit, the spoon-architect gnome of Pharoah, comes to mind - but it doesn't detract from the seriousness of the adventure. However, when I browse into certain BD&D modules - not all of them, but enough - I get taken by the Over the Top nature of it all.

Is this just me, or do others have the same impression?

Cheers!

 

[Lanefan]

I am brought to mind with recent posts about Frank Mentzer how much I dislike his module, Needle.

I wonder if it wasn't published in the wrong game line? Would it have seemed more correct if it was part of the BECMI line? I suspect it may have been.

For me, at least, AD&D was about the serious side of D&D. Basic D&D was where strange mad things took place - over the top kingdoms and the like.

I've never noticed this split; but I've always kinda lumped BD+D and AD+D in together, though it certainly does seem the whimsy level has dropped with each edition since.

Tracy Hickman also loved the odd - Prit, the spoon-architect gnome of Pharoah, comes to mind ...

Last time I ran this module I came up with a whole backstory about who Prit was and how he came to be there; it nicely set some things up for later in the campaign.

However, when I browse into certain BD&D modules - not all of them, but enough - I get taken by the Over the Top nature of it all.

Is this just me, or do others have the same impression?

Sort of, but I maintain that D+D is at its best when taken slightly OTT anyway. That said, some of those modules you mention go a bit far even for me.

Lan-"where a choice exists between the serious and the whimsical, whimsical will win out slightly more often than random chance would dictate"-efan

 

[kitsune9]

When I was growing up, my first rpg was Basic D&D. I too felt that Basic D&D was where the gonzo fantasy would be and then as I got older, I got into AD&D and that shaped my impression that this is "big leagues" and this is the adult D&D so no crazy stuff.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, Needle was one of the few original adventure modules I played back in the days. I didn't think it was that bad, except for the labyrinth part. I didn't emphasize on the whimsical parts (I also didn't have a good idea how to translate "Gee Whiz!" into German ), such as they were and 're-fluffed' the adventure to fit into my setting.

 

[Mallus]

I started w/AD&D and have always thought of it as an exercise in violent, faux-medieval whimsy.

 

[Dragonbait]

Compared to the "D&D is SERIOUS buisness" opinion of the books and adventures now, AD&D (both editions) was positively dripping with silliness.

Look at the AD&D PH and DMG. There are comics inside the rulebooks. I didn't start playing till midway through AD&D 2e. Planescape had a LOT of humor (although I felt it was appropriate) and there was Spelljammer. Spelljammer was full of silly bits. Every book had something off beat. There was an adventure where the PCs fight off invading creatures on the back of a humanoid gargantuan. There are giff (not that funny IMO, but people think that a race of militan humanoids based on one of the most deadly animals in Africa is silly) Dohwar (space penguin merchants!), flying pigs, gnome ships run by giant hampsters, tinker gnomes were a parody of engineers that their designer knew, etc.

I can only think of one D&D adventure for 3E that had humor (a calzone golem in one adventure).

 

[the Jester]

For me, at least, AD&D was about the serious side of D&D. Basic D&D was where strange mad things took place - over the top kingdoms and the like.

D00d, AD&D is where you find beholders on spaceships.

Not to mention +2 backscratchers.

Spells that make you fall over laughing or dance uncontrollably.

Chess board puzzle after chess board puzzle.

Yellow coats of protection from rain. Gingerbread golems. Huts on chicken legs. Tweedledum and Tweedledee.

I could go on- there's the mithral breadknife of Greyhawk, there are pseudo-undead and self-destruct monsters, you could have a room where the floor (trapper), ceiling (lurker above), both the chair and the cloak thrown over it (mimic, cloaker) and the hat on a peg (executioner's hood), not to mention the big rock (bowler) are all monsters.

AD&D brought the silly in spades.

 

[havard]

I think it is more a matter of the Classic D&D line (ie not AD&D) having more freedom to experiment with different rules, styles and approaches to the game.

That said, I like Needle and the Spiders on the Moon part is probably my favorite aspect of the module.

Havard

 

[TerraDave]

White Plume Mountain?

 

[Diamond Cross]

White Plum Mountain, where there's a mountain that has white plums that are used as components in potions of healing.