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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9411569" data-attributes="member: 18">I don't personally think it's as simple as that.I do think that it's sensible and reasonable to lean into experiencing the moment and so on, but I think of a smart, reasonable people get condemning or sneered at for not "embracing joy" as you put it, but that's not what's actually happening. In a lot of cases, there can just be too many barriers or snags to being in that state, ones that cannot be dismissed by a simple act of will.Like, I enjoy a lot of dumb movies and dumb Shonen anime, and some pretty dumb and even kind of mediocre videogames (hello Diablo IV), and part of how I can is that none of them throw up particularly high barriers to my being able to "embrace joy" as you put it, with them. There are others that I'd like to enjoy, but they've got too many problems which I can't just "unsee". I can turn my brain down, but I can't remove my morality or decency, nor can I entirely remove my ability to perceive flaws (and also solutions to flaws). It's best when what flaws there are, are either meaningless (however severe they might be on a careful analysis - plenty of fun dumb movies have gigantic plot holes, for example) because they're irrelevant to the bulk of what's going on, or where they're just very few in number, and not severe.For example - I'm watching Evil right now, and it's pretty dumb at times, and contains some stuff I kind of disagree with, but the presentation is so smooth and so good, the acting (getting Katja Herbers from Europe was great - she just wildly out-acts a lot of actors, in a good way), the editing, the cinematography, even stuff like the lighting is so solid that it doesn't become a problem to my enjoyment. Good pacing and not wasting our time on annoying scenes much helps too. Further, the problems it does have tend not to be severe, which makes them easier to just roll past - the writers have pretty good judgement, for money, for how to land semi-controversial things.(The weakest points so far have been mostly with characters who generally behave intelligently - moreso than is typical in horror shows - embracing the idiot ball for the sake of plot, but that's basically one episode and one repeating subplot in the 1.75 seasons I've watched so far, which is pretty good!)But there can just be too much stupidity, or the problems can be just too severe and nagging to overlook. Compare Pacific Rim and Pacific Rim: Uprising (the sequel). The first one is a dumb, extremely stylish movie, with really bad pacing, some hilariously bad-but-fun dialogue, and absolutely rocking robot fights and which ultimately worked really well for me! The second one is even dumber, not as stylish, and whilst the pacing is better, the actual plot is just so awful, and the characters not very engaging (despite John Boyega, who is pretty good at making characters engaging on thin material), and so even though it's a giant robot movie, I just can't get into it, I can't "embrace the joy" with it. The barrier is too high. I get knocked out of my "fun zone", as it were.MST3K not doing it for you?Because I think tearing stuff apart is generally only "finding joy" when it's very very bad. So bad it is genuinely funny how bad it is. Or where there's something really engaging or intriguing about breaking down exactly why something doesn't work.Also, and I feel like our society doesn't acknowledge this enough - sometimes recognising the flaws in a thing is actually a good way to find joy in either what's left of that thing, or to find other things which will give you real joy. It's not a purely destructive act in the way people dismissively think - it's an inquisitive act. You're learning, and it's driven by curiosity and a desire to know more. Now, to be clear, I'm talking about analytical breakdowns here, not just "X SUCKS!!!" rants, there's rarely much value in that beyond catharsis (which is still an important thing at times, emotionally). But in breaking down why I or others dislike certain elements of certain games or shows, or whatever, or why they seem not to work, I can learn things, and I think sometimes can help others learn things, which lead to people having better ideas about what actually will bring joy for them. Or just how to engage with something in a way that lessens annoyance and increases joy. Like with 5E, by discussing its (significant) flaws, I realized that most of them are more of an issue for me "DM side", so by simply avoiding DMing it, and just playing it, I can have a much better time.But I just don't find it to be as simple as "embrace joy". Then again, hilarious as this might be from my posts, I am a person whose natural state is quite close to joyful, or at least mirthful. If a media product is really annoying me, it's usually because I can't find a way to make it fun, particularly if I had wanted to.(d20 Modern was an example of this - I loved the concept, the art, and the general aesthetic, and I wanted to just enjoy the game, but there were just too many snags, too many things I couldn't turn a blind eye to, because they just kept coming up over and over when I actually played it.)</blockquote>

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