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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 9416620" data-attributes="member: 18">It's not very hard imho. WoW isn't particularly more special in the way you describe than any other MMORPGs - they are games that, because of their community and longer-term elements, can really affect people, for better and worse. It is more special than other MMORPGs in a straightforward &quot;well-designed&quot; sense, as I believe [USER=6807152]@Scribe[/USER] meant. The only person saying anyone is &quot;wrong&quot; here is you.Yeah I think with the definite exception of Cataclysm and perhaps BfA/Shadowlands, WoW has always a spark of design brilliance that elevated it above the other MMORPGs of the given era, no matter how hard they tried to catch up or get ahead.And talking of embracing joy, my wife, whose had become quite cynical about MMORPGs, having played them since DAoC launched, found real joy in SWTOR when it came out, because the little story bits were so fun, especially multiplayer, where I was playing like a &quot;reasonable&quot; Imperial Agent, and she was playing an unrepentantly Dark Side Sith Sorcerer (or whatever they were called - the DPS one with double-bladed lightsabers). And in conversations with NPCs the game had you roll off to see who decided what happened, and they'd animated the consequences to some extent, like we're questioning an NPC about not doing what the Empire would want, and I want to be sensible and let them live with a warning and get more info, and she selects like &quot;time to chop heads&quot;, and wins the roll, and one lightsaber noise later the NPC falls to the ground dead, and the game shows my character looking appalled. Amazing. She still says that whole SWTOR period before the story ran out was one of the best times she had in an MMORPG's PvE.That was a game where you could be quite cynical and just try and min-max your choices like that, but if you just leaned into them, you could have such a good time.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 9416620, member: 18"] It's not very hard imho. WoW isn't particularly more special in the way you describe than any other MMORPGs - they are games that, because of their community and longer-term elements, can really affect people, for better and worse. It is more special than other MMORPGs in a straightforward "well-designed" sense, as I believe [USER=6807152]@Scribe[/USER] meant. The only person saying anyone is "wrong" here is you. Yeah I think with the definite exception of Cataclysm and perhaps BfA/Shadowlands, WoW has always a spark of design brilliance that elevated it above the other MMORPGs of the given era, no matter how hard they tried to catch up or get ahead. And talking of embracing joy, my wife, whose had become quite cynical about MMORPGs, having played them since DAoC launched, found real joy in SWTOR when it came out, because the little story bits were so fun, especially multiplayer, where I was playing like a "reasonable" Imperial Agent, and she was playing an unrepentantly Dark Side Sith Sorcerer (or whatever they were called - the DPS one with double-bladed lightsabers). And in conversations with NPCs the game had you roll off to see who decided what happened, and they'd animated the consequences to some extent, like we're questioning an NPC about not doing what the Empire would want, and I want to be sensible and let them live with a warning and get more info, and she selects like "time to chop heads", and wins the roll, and one lightsaber noise later the NPC falls to the ground dead, and the game shows my character looking appalled. Amazing. She still says that whole SWTOR period before the story ran out was one of the best times she had in an MMORPG's PvE. That was a game where you could be quite cynical and just try and min-max your choices like that, but if you just leaned into them, you could have such a good time. [/QUOTE]

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