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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6489063" data-attributes="member: 6677017">Also not directed at you in particular, but I think most players would have a problem with inefficient characters at some point.For you (general you), where is that point?If someone were playing a fighter with both a Strength and Dexterity of, say 11, and fighting with a single dagger and an empty off-hand, because that's how they envision their character, is that okay with your group? Personally I'm fine with say 1 point of damage and 1 point of AC. Or maybe 2 points of one and no points of the other. This isn't some strict checksheet I'm looking at, it's just my general impression of about how inefficient a player who understands the game would make his character for role-playing purposes. Take a character I'm planning to run as an extreme example of what I'd be okay with. I'm putting 14 in Dex (despite being Strength based, and needing a casting stat in addition) because I see him in medium armor, despite being proficient with heavy armor. So, best case scenario I'm putting myself 1 point of AC behind how I would be were I heavily armored, plus I'm losing stats elsewhere to pay for that 14 Dex that I need so I'm not 3 or 4 points behind in AC. He also don't use a shield, because I don't see him as using one. (As DM I house-ruled that the Dueling Fighting Style gives you a +1 AC if you aren't using a shield, 'cause I'm DM and I can do that--it's a general rule that also works well with a traditional rapier duelist.) So, all told I'm basically 2 points down on AC (and still have disadvantage on stealth) and I have to put 2-4 points into Dexterity that I could really make better use of elsewhere. I'd have a hard time seeing a player make a character any more inefficient than that without intentionally trying to do so. A highly inefficient character might be fun for the whole party for a few sessions, until the humor wears off. I'm going to guess that everyone has a certain point of character inefficiency where it's just annoying for pretty much everyone. There are other players and a DM at the table who can help the player get the style they want without sacrificing too much for it.So I'm saying most of you probably have a point where too much inefficiency is too much. So where is that point?I think people are criticizing Paraxis's position, but I don't think his point of undesirable inefficiency is necessarily as far away from his critics as the responses are implying, and I think his actual position is being somewhat disregarded or caricatured so that it can be opposed on philosophical grounds rather than compared to other people's actual play experiences.</blockquote>

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