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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Axiomatic Unicorn" data-source="post: 167084" data-attributes="member: 1974">I do not see any basis for any of this.You are forcing the Class to be a concrete thing rather than an abstract concept.  I don't see that the chibby chub would even have to know that he was a chibby chub.  I find your thinking to be a worse example of metagame.  The idea of "entrance" is metagame.To stay with the lasher idea rather than the undefined chibby chub, the prereqs strike me as obvious things that someone devoted to learning to fight with a whip would do.  The character does not think "Gee, I have a BAB of 5+ and these other prereqs that guy told me I needed, now I can be a Lasher and not draw attacks of opportunity.  Yeah Me."    I see it as the guy is dedicated to fighting with the whip.  Eventually he gets so good that he gains the close combat ability.  There is no "entrance" or sudden dramatic shift as you seem to demand.  It is just a natural progression.  Everything you listed implies that the character understands what a prerequisite is, what a class is, what a level is.  All completely metagame ideas.  Ok, so PClasses are broken, and feats are not.  Then you show me this feat that does not come close to replacing the class and is still completely broken.  ????I don't see anything that makes one bit of the second sentence true.And I have not seen any reason for separate classes being a bad thing.  What makes Fighter8/Lasher2 less valid than Fighter8/Rogue2 or Fighter10?  You complain about metagame thinking, but you are the one worrying about the 100% metagame concept of classes.  This is still your arbitrary addition to the concept.  Can Weapon Specialization: Whip be self taught?  Why or why not?  How does the fighter know he needs weapon focus as a prereq without metagame thinking?How does a character know they have changed classes?I could be of the mindset that divine spells can only be cast while standing on your head and dropping superglue in your nose.  That would make me think that divine spells were not good.  Who says they overshadow them?  Who says there is a class for everything?  What does the Samurai have to do with anything?Why? Who says a Fighter X can't be a Knight of Blah?  Who says all member of the Order of the Bow must take the Order of the Bow Initiate PClass?   ????  Depends on the class.  Are you saying if an Order of the Bow intiate quits the order he should suddenly forget some of his skills with the bow?So???   I don't see any reason for you to include IMHO in that line.  I also don't see how this statement is at all relevant to whether PClasses are a good option or notI'll end with a comment that you are using the term metagame as a complaint A LOT, yet it is clear to me that if you would simply let go of your own deluge of metagame thinking, 99% of your concerns would go away.</blockquote>

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