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<blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 2250640" data-attributes="member: 892">How about the Heirophant?&nbsp; Kinda like the Archmage, except the archmage gets, y'know, spellcaster levels, while the Heirophant gets abilities that REALLY don't make up for not having spellcaster levels.&nbsp; That's outa the DMG.Another one: Duelist.&nbsp; Many of whose abilities don't work in armor (not even light armor).&nbsp; Who needs an intelligence of 30 to make up for this, and even so, only at high levels.&nbsp; Riiiiiiiiight.&nbsp; Also in the DMG.&nbsp; I mean, this one was so bad, that Wotc made up a new core class in complete warrior (swashbuckler) that actually isn't that great but absolutely *shines* compared to the Duelist, so people don't notice as much.Edit: and please notice that the picture of the duelist seems to have her in light armor.&nbsp; Even SHE knows that she sucks without armor.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Particle_Man, post: 2250640, member: 892"] How about the Heirophant? Kinda like the Archmage, except the archmage gets, y'know, spellcaster levels, while the Heirophant gets abilities that REALLY don't make up for not having spellcaster levels. That's outa the DMG. Another one: Duelist. Many of whose abilities don't work in armor (not even light armor). Who needs an intelligence of 30 to make up for this, and even so, only at high levels. Riiiiiiiiight. Also in the DMG. I mean, this one was so bad, that Wotc made up a new core class in complete warrior (swashbuckler) that actually isn't that great but absolutely *shines* compared to the Duelist, so people don't notice as much. Edit: and please notice that the picture of the duelist seems to have her in light armor. Even SHE knows that she sucks without armor. :) [/QUOTE]

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