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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6654014" data-attributes="member: 996">You want to repeat your anecdote, fine.  You didn't see minis being used from the mid 80s.  I saw them being used from 1980 on.  Of course, there are group and regional variations.  I occasionally played with groups who lacked minis, in which case you used whatever was available when you needed to track positions, or even lacked a surface and resorted to sketching things out.   The on-line debates on UseNet were decidedly elitist.  Not that the elitists doing it called themselves that."The Grid" was a different innovation, entirely.  In the early 80s and before, you're talking old-school wargamers.  So you had a felt table or sand table, or bare table-top, mabye with some 'terrain' elements (elaborate model, or improvised stand-in).  And you measured everything.   Grids weren't unknown, they were just usually in the more chit-and-board style wargames than the miniatures types.  The 1e DMG, did have a blurb about using a grid or hex surface.  But it was really in the mid 80s that battlemats came into vogue - though, even then not so much for D&D - it was late 2e C&T that took full advantage of such surfaces.  And, it wasn't until 3.0 that D&D finally stopped trying to ponce around on the 'role' side of the role v roll divide, and went 'back to the dungeon.,' and, thus, it's miniatures wargame roots. Emphasis on 'advocate,' yes - perhaps even 'evangelize.'  From the playtest on through publication, Next/5e has been very enthused about TotM, really pushing it as some sort of ideal.  Much like it did for DM Empowerment - which has been a definite success, and, for my money, saved the game this edition cycle. 2e, IIRC did drop the old wargame jargon of scale inches (with two different scales, no less).  Like 5e after it, 2e used familiar (to Americans) measurement in feet.  While that in no way facilitates implementing TotM, it may make the decision to use TotM feel more natural.</blockquote>

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