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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aegeri" data-source="post: 5307525" data-attributes="member: 78116">Not really, your only argument is "This is power creep and OMG the sky is falling" without any logical reason beyond that - that's my interpretation. You've not explained how themes imbalance encounters. You've not given me any indication you've ever played with themes vs. without, not to mention how easy this is to do. You can make a themed party and use it in the same encounters, just ignore the themes power. Makes playtesting it a total breeze. That you haven't done this and make increasingly ridiculous claims like it increases a PCs power by 25% at epic is just the icing on the cake. Oh and implying I'm dishonest, I got a kick out of that one for sure. You're welcome to do a playtest yourself at 5/15/25 or 1-3/19/30 if you wish. You're not going to find the themes do anything particularly special except add another option before "at-will" powers are required at high levels - just like I did. Neither will you find a themed party is going to get through paragon/epic encounters any easier than a non-themed party. That's because themes are a well thought out and balanced addition to the game.There are lots of feats that grant an extra encounter power as well actually, like <a href="http://www.wizards.com/dndinsider/compendium/feat.aspx?id=2023" target="_blank">Vistani Heritage</a>, so getting further encounter powers isn't uncommon or something that can't be done. Similarly, items can also grant further encounter powers of various strengths and so the system already can sustain more encounter powers than you think PCs actually have. Throw a racial power on that and you actually have more encounter powers than you actually think PCs have.So I don't acknowledge it because the point is irrelevant and there already ways TO get more encounter powers. That is what YOU refuse to acknowledge.Thank you for implying that I'm inherently dishonest.If you go back and read my earlier post, I stated I looked at 1-3 (my campaigns playtest), upper paragon (level 19 in this case) and level 30. I suggested to you to run tests at level 1/10/20/30 or whatever else. You'll soon find that the themes power has far less effect the higher level you go.By fifth level with a racial encounter power, a PC will have:1 (Racial)2 Theme3 Encounter 14 Encounter 2By my maths that is 25% of his encounter powers coming from the theme. At level 5. Do you think your 25% prediction for level 30 is going to survive out of curiosity?Hell let's throw in Vistani Heritage as the level 1 feat too, now he has:1 (Racial)2 Vistani Heritage 3 Theme4 Class/Theme Encounter 15 Class/Theme Encounter 2Now we've got the encounter powers contributed by the theme down to 20% - even less impressive. What I think you need to go and do is have a look at how many powers a PC has by 30. Especially considering the number of magical items a level 30 character will have, some of whom will have encounter powers of their own as well.Without a theme and level 16, for the record taking the above:1 Racial 2 Vistani Heritage 3 Class/Theme Encounter 14 Class/Theme Encounter 25 Class/Theme Encounter 36 Paragon Path Encounter Power (can vary in level though)So I was able to get 6 encounter powers here pretty easily. Yet you're sticking to the line that a PC has only what, 3 or 4? I don't think so. Noting that I am sure if I equipped a level 16 character I could get some magical items with an encounter power as well, adding to the above.Much like you implying I'm inherently dishonest? I'm being vicious? Mind is boggled at this point.I've run about nine campaigns in 4E and two were in high epic, one to level 25 and one to level 30. I run 3 games for the record. The two I've tried with themes didn't look significantly more powerful - that I would change the way I designed encounters - compared to everything I had done previously. More fun, less swingy and less repeatedly using the same at-wills constantly because you have no choice in the matter. That makes for a better game.If themes aren't imbalancing the game where they would have the most possible impact - at early heroic - you've got a massive uphill battle explaining how they do a lot to game balance by paragon/epic.And yet you oddly dispute that giving a PC a single extra encounter power isn't going to be a significant difference by paragon/epic. Precisely because everyone has a lot of options encounter power wise, including magical items, from certain feats and similar.This is exactly why I noted the themes didn't contribute much to paragon and epic fights. For the record, my campaigns have a similar amount of rounds except in exceptionally hard encounters.It's really not and you've made absolutely no logical case for this anywhere. Also, I can get 5 encounter powers by level 5 above, so I'm rather confused as to why you think this is exceptional. 5 is in fact completely normal if you have a race with an encounter power.25% to 50%? More like a lot at heroic (where you don't have much encounters) and minimally at epic. The party I had at epic had around six encounter powers each (Racial + 3 class + Paragon Path + Epic Destiny + Items + Multiclass + Class Features), if I include magical items and racial it was substantially higher. Honestly, do you even include all magical items and other varied options in 4E in this? As you've conceded the core point and have started claiming I'm dishonest, instead of actually arguing anything that would support your point through actual play experience, I feel we're done here.</blockquote>

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