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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 121010" data-attributes="member: 78">Theocracy wins in a prolonged struggle.Raise Dead on the important people works amazingly well.  Higher level spells make odd sucide attacks by Clerics with the Travel domain, or a spiffy magic item looted from a dead wizard, very dangerous.  A cleric pops in with teleport, blows some stuff up and/or beats the crap of a wizard and then either dies or holy words out.  Then the high priest casts true res.  Obviously, the target has to high value for this trick to be effective, but it's still as good as anything a wizard can do, and probably better if the cleric has Trickery as well.I don't think wizards will be teleporting to important cleric controled areas either.  The clerics won't need walls around their cities, Permanent (Miracle) Forbidance effects in major areas, probably extended to cover the entire city could be in use.  Sure, it's expensive, but so is the cost of building and maintaining a big wall that anyone can port through or fly over.Clerics also have better mobility when traveling in unknown areas.  Teleport requires study of the area.  Scrying may not be effective since countermeasures can be employed.  Also, Forbidence blocks teleportation.  However, Windwalk can take along about as many people as teleport, and heavy equipment isn't a concern.  It works relatively quickly - 60 mph flying.  If the wizards are doing multiple "seen once" teleports for quick strikes, and a fewer number of clerics are doing windwalk for quick attacks, I think thigns will come out pretty even, especially since wind walk can also provide a return trip.  Clerics have knowledge Arcana as a class skill, and so will likely be aware of the magical tricks that wizards can do.  I can't see an entire nation of clerics being caught unprepared.  Clerical Divinations, besides scrying, are better than wizard ones.  When not dungeon crawling, I've seen a cleric keep a Divination ready every day.   Since we're assuming a pretty large number of classed characters, generally in the preferred class of the region, it's not unreasonable that just about any important matter would have some people keeping tabs on it Divination, with COmmune used in emergencies.  Even Augury would rule for setting up favorable situations.  THe relatively reliable and low risk info from these spells blows the doors off crap like contact other plane.Clerics have earlier access to sending spells, and thus better long range communications.  If the wizards are using extensive Enchantments to keep the pop in line, all the clerics need to do is attack not with painful spells but with dispel magic, or magic circle.  Finally, I pick the theocracy because a cleric is generally a bit better than a mage.  A prepped mage beats an unprepped cleric.  A prepped cleric beats an unprepped mage (personal experience).  A prepped cleric is at least even, and probably superior to an prepped mage.  I just about rendered a 10th level immune to the attacks of 13th level wizard, and probably could have done enough damage solo if the DM hadn't kind of cheated.</blockquote>

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