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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JustinA" data-source="post: 3687500" data-attributes="member: 51618">Finding a definition of "beer and pretzels game" took about five seconds worth of Google searching: "A beer and pretzels game is a game which is humorous and light on rules and strategy, usually containing many random elements." (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_and_pretzels_game" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_and_pretzels_game</a>)It's a well-understood term with wide usage and a common understanding of its meaning. I can also go from that common understanding and quickly figure out what you mean when you apply the term to a pen 'n paper RPG: It's a humorous RPG with light rules and minimal strategy, probably containing lots of random elements."Videogame" is also a term with a common understanding of its meaning. For consistency, we'll pull from Wikipedia again: "A video game is a game that involves interaction with a user interface to generate visual feedback on a video device." (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videogame" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videogame</a>)When I attempt to apply that definition to pen 'n paper RPGs, however, I get nonsense: There is no visual feedback, no user interface, and no video device to be found in 3rd Edition.So, clearly, when someone applies the descriptor "videogamish" to 3rd Edition, they must be talking about something other than the common understanding and basic definition of the term "videogame".And yet, despite years of me trying to get an answer to this question on multiple forums, no one seems willing to actually provide an explanation of whatever the heck it is they mean when they say "3rd edition is more 'videogamish'".  I, personally, consider this to be very telling.Thanks for providing the exact quote to demonstrate that you were wrong all along. That kind of intellectual integrity is rare.(You do realize that quote directly contradicts your original post, right?)A lot of people assume that all of these rules in 3rd Edition make it more difficult for new players. In my experience -- not only with RPGs, but in other fields as well -- the structure and support that 3rd Edition offers actually makes it easier for new players to run the game.Why? Because if you're trying to figure out how to do something, 3rd Edition is probably going to tell you how to do it.Much like a properly-constructed dungeon crawl gives the DM everything they need to know about running an adventure while naturally and unobtrusively constraining player options, the support and structure of D&D rarely leaves the DM or player dangling without guidance.For old-hands who'd rather just trust their well-informed guts, this can be problematic. Why keep track of all these fiddly details when you and your friends -- who are all on the same bandwidth because you've been playing together for years -- can spit out an answer on-the-fly that does the job just as well?Me, I'm an old-hand who appreciates the creativity which only becomes possible in a structured environment. But I'm also a big fan of improv theater, so that might be influencing my opinion here. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Justin Alexander<a href="http://www.thealexandrian.net" target="_blank">http://www.thealexandrian.net</a></blockquote>

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