CM
Adventurer
Apologies for the wall of text 
Friday night I ran the Caves of Chaos playtest for some of my veteran players. Full disclosure: we are currently all 4e players who are pretty happy with the game (barring some known issues), although most of us started in 1e or basic and have been playing 20 years or more (God that sounds horrible when it’s typed out). We do plenty of roleplaying and exploration in 4e but in combat we are extremely tactically-oriented. I asked if the players wanted to try going gridless for the playtest and nobody raised their hands, so we used a 1” grid and miniatures. I have tried to highlight the critiques in blue.
We first spent an hour going over the characters and rules, making sure everyone was familiar with the parts they needed to know. There was initially a lot of skepticism from some of the players at how “barren” the characters look compared to a 1st-level 3e or 4e character, but I reminded them that we’re just looking at the most basic rule elements in this first playtest.
Right off the bat we noticed the inconsistent attack bonuses, armor classes, and damage dice on some of the characters. Where there was a conflict, I gave the benefit of the doubt to the character—kept the higher damage dice for the rogue and priest, added dex for staff attacks (finesse), etc.
Since we only had about two more hours available, we went straight for the dungeon. Rather than do any scouting, the group decided to take the entrance on the near left, with the understanding that it would probably be the easiest to escape from should things go south.
The halfling rogue wished he was able to scout ahead, but lacking low-light vision or darkvision, he was forced to stick close to the rather un-stealthy party. He did roll several (very poor) stealth checks, although there was nothing to hide from in the entrance. Both he and I forgot about the rogue’s skill mastery. As he searched the entrance for traps, he heard the sound of the goblin patrol approaching from the east, and ran around the corner into the dead-end hall to hide while warning the party. About this time the six goblins spotted the party’s lights and yelled the traditional goblin “Bree-Yark” warning yell.
Neither side was surprised, and the goblins rolled quite well on initiative. The dwarves were positioned in a line already at the intersection, however, blocking the passage. Three goblins ran forward and attacked, while the others remained several squares behind the front line, throwing spears or firing bows (depending on which stat block you read). The cleric of Moradin was able to utilize his shielding bonus quite effectively, negating a hit the first round. The fighter dispatched a goblin, and the cleric wounded another. The hidden rogue sidestepped around the corner and put a sling stone into the skull of one of the ranged attackers. The wizard finished off the injured goblin with magic missile, and the cleric missed with his laser. Round 1: PCs 3, goblins 0.
Round 2, three goblins joined combat from behind the party, to the west. They made no effort to be stealthy, so the party was aware of their presence before the round began. Little did they know that at this very moment, other goblins were knocking on the ogre mercenary’s door. Not wanting the rogue, wizard, and cleric in the rear to be vulnerable, the fighter immediately moved through the rear ranks to attempt to block the newcomers. Due to lack of AoO rules, however, two goblins were able to slip past and one lay a solid hit on the wizard. In return, one of these was roasted by the Pelorite’s ray of light while the other was smoked by the wizard’s shocking grasp. The Halfling took the opportunity to hide once again in the dead-end hallway. Two of the goblin archers drew steel and rushed the dwarf cleric while the third ran south for help. The dwarf missed his attack and bravely held the line. PCs 5, goblins 0.
Round 3, six additional goblins hustled from the south to join combat but were unable to attack. The dwarf missed once again and took a minor hit from one of his two attackers. Seeing six more goblins coming up the hall to join the three already present, he called out for his allies to take cover. The player noted that his shielding ability was useless while he stood alone, so the cleric of Pelor moved up behind him but missed with a ray of light. With the other cleric at his side, he thought perhaps some goblins would take shots at the lesser-armored cleric and allow him to negate a hit with his shield. The wizard pegged one of the goblins to the east with a magic missile but merely wounded it, and then took cover in the dead-end hallway. About halfway through the round, everyone heard a deep, guttural battle cry from the western tunnel. I had everyone roll Intelligence to identify it. I also gave advantage to the dwarf fighter for his soldier background, but he rolled very well on both dice anyways. He recognized that it was giantish, and probably an ogre. A lot of concerned looks around the table were made. The player who was already intimately familiar with the caves (and who has been playing since OD&D) merely closed his eyes and nodded. The remaining goblin in the west tunnel hustled to flee around the corner. The fighter (perhaps unwisely) moved even deeper into the western tunnel, up to the corner around which the goblin fled and readied an attack for the first thing to come through. PCs 5, goblins 0
At this point, none of the casters had spent anything other than at-will magic. Only the wizard had taken a solid hit, and he wasn’t even “bloodied.” Nobody else was down more than 3 or 4 HP. Everybody knew that was about to change.
Round 4, both clerics hit, finishing off two of the frontline goblins and moved west to reinforce the fighter. The wizard and rogue waited in the dead-end tunnel in ambush. The seven goblins from the east ran up to the intersection and pelted the clerics, landing a solid hit on the dwarf priest. The wizard stepped forward with burning hands and was able to target five. He rolled poorly on damage, but still ended up frying three of them. The rogue pelted one of the unharmed goblins, killing it. Then, around the corner came the ogre and four goblins backing him up. The fighter landed a crit right off the bat. The ogre got mad and returned the favor, nearly dropping the already-wounded fighter. The goblins tried to shoot through their large friend and were ineffective. PCs 11, goblins 0.
Round 5, the fighter is in trouble. Dwarf cleric hits him with a healing word then moves east again to attack the burning hands survivors but misses yet again. He comments that at least these goblins hold still (4e goblins can shift when missed by a melee attack). The cleric of Pelor, (complaining that his heals are touch-range) moves right behind the fighter and gives him a cure light wounds. Both heals roll average. The wizard finishes off another slightly-toasted goblin with MM. He believes that he would be using shocking grasp more if they were fighting creatures with more HP—magic missile is nearly an auto-kill against a wounded goblin. About this time the thief also realizes that hiding in order to gain advantage against the goblins is also pretty useless—his sling stones also seem to automatically kill them as well. The remaining two goblins engage the dwarf cleric but miss. The rogue decides the fighter needs help and hides behind the priest of Pelor, with the intent to begin firing on the ogre. Luckily this round the ogre misses the fighter. The goblins behind him see a golden opportunity though and slip past their friend and into melee range of the cleric of Pelor. One of these rolls max damage. Once again the fighter curses lack of AoO rules. He misses the ogre and begs the other cleric to come back and grant his shielding ability. PCs 12, goblins 0
Round 6, the fighter rolls poorly and misses the ogre again. The dwarf cleric sees his allies to the west in trouble and abandons the line to the east, rushing one infiltrating goblin and killing it. The Pelorite moves away and obliterates the second with his holy laser. The wizard finishes off another crispy goblin and flees down to the end of the dead-end hallway. Seeing the brutal attacks, the remaining goblin in the east takes a pot shot at the wizard and easily hits, but still flees east. The ogre hits the fighter a second time, again nearly dropping him. The party agrees they need to focus down the ogre, immediately. The dwarven cleric moves adjacent to the fighter and gets in a good hit on the ogre while burning another healing word. The two goblins behind the ogre fire bows but miss. PCs 15, goblins 0
Round 7: Not wanting a survivor, the rogue abandons his stealth against the ogre and chases down the fleeing goblin, taking it out with a sling bullet. The Pelorite burns his second cure on the fighter. The wizard and dwarf cleric both land hits on the ogre, and the dwarf fighter crits once again. Suddenly the tables are turned on the ogre. He throws down his money bag and backs away, shouting “NO KILL! NO KILL!” while the two goblins behind him turn tail and run. PCs 16, goblins 0
Round 8, the party members look at each other, wondering what to do. Both dwarves land blows, although the knight decides to deal nonlethal, with the intent of waking up the ogre and taking it prisoner or hiring it. The ogre drops unconscious. The rogue and wizard want to give chase to the two escaping goblins but change their minds when they hear more goblin shouts down the hall. The wizard player later remembers that he could’ve used ray of frost to stop at least one of them. With healing exhausted (except for the Pelorite’s single potion), the party grabs the money bag, gives the ogre the once-over, and high-tails it out. Last out, the halfling finishes it off, unbeknownst to the knight, who was hoping it would wake up and remember them in the future as the people who showed it mercy.
In the end, the party was happy to have survived an ogre at first level, along with taking out 16 goblins in one go. The wizard actually still has shield and sleep available—he never got a good opportunity to use them—but both clerics are exhausted. The party tries out the short rest mechanic and rolls pretty poorly on hit dice. Everybody wants to go back in but they realize they will need an extended rest. Everyone is still at least a little injured and going back at this point would be suicide. Huzzah 15-minute adventuring day.
Some likes and dislikes:
Other than those caveats we felt the game played pretty well. The numbers seem pretty solid as far as attacks and checks and saves go. We would all like a little more HP recovery post-combat in order to cut down the need for full rests. With all these modern conveniences like at-will attacks, +CON to starting HP and combat feats available the party still almost died on the first encounter. I can’t imagine what a meatgrinder the Caves of Chaos are in basic D&D with a DM who doesn’t pull punches. We plan on continuing opposite our biweekly 4e game, hopefully this time getting more chances to do real exploration or interaction.
Friday night I ran the Caves of Chaos playtest for some of my veteran players. Full disclosure: we are currently all 4e players who are pretty happy with the game (barring some known issues), although most of us started in 1e or basic and have been playing 20 years or more (God that sounds horrible when it’s typed out). We do plenty of roleplaying and exploration in 4e but in combat we are extremely tactically-oriented. I asked if the players wanted to try going gridless for the playtest and nobody raised their hands, so we used a 1” grid and miniatures. I have tried to highlight the critiques in blue.
We first spent an hour going over the characters and rules, making sure everyone was familiar with the parts they needed to know. There was initially a lot of skepticism from some of the players at how “barren” the characters look compared to a 1st-level 3e or 4e character, but I reminded them that we’re just looking at the most basic rule elements in this first playtest.
Right off the bat we noticed the inconsistent attack bonuses, armor classes, and damage dice on some of the characters. Where there was a conflict, I gave the benefit of the doubt to the character—kept the higher damage dice for the rogue and priest, added dex for staff attacks (finesse), etc.
Since we only had about two more hours available, we went straight for the dungeon. Rather than do any scouting, the group decided to take the entrance on the near left, with the understanding that it would probably be the easiest to escape from should things go south.
The halfling rogue wished he was able to scout ahead, but lacking low-light vision or darkvision, he was forced to stick close to the rather un-stealthy party. He did roll several (very poor) stealth checks, although there was nothing to hide from in the entrance. Both he and I forgot about the rogue’s skill mastery. As he searched the entrance for traps, he heard the sound of the goblin patrol approaching from the east, and ran around the corner into the dead-end hall to hide while warning the party. About this time the six goblins spotted the party’s lights and yelled the traditional goblin “Bree-Yark” warning yell.
Neither side was surprised, and the goblins rolled quite well on initiative. The dwarves were positioned in a line already at the intersection, however, blocking the passage. Three goblins ran forward and attacked, while the others remained several squares behind the front line, throwing spears or firing bows (depending on which stat block you read). The cleric of Moradin was able to utilize his shielding bonus quite effectively, negating a hit the first round. The fighter dispatched a goblin, and the cleric wounded another. The hidden rogue sidestepped around the corner and put a sling stone into the skull of one of the ranged attackers. The wizard finished off the injured goblin with magic missile, and the cleric missed with his laser. Round 1: PCs 3, goblins 0.
Round 2, three goblins joined combat from behind the party, to the west. They made no effort to be stealthy, so the party was aware of their presence before the round began. Little did they know that at this very moment, other goblins were knocking on the ogre mercenary’s door. Not wanting the rogue, wizard, and cleric in the rear to be vulnerable, the fighter immediately moved through the rear ranks to attempt to block the newcomers. Due to lack of AoO rules, however, two goblins were able to slip past and one lay a solid hit on the wizard. In return, one of these was roasted by the Pelorite’s ray of light while the other was smoked by the wizard’s shocking grasp. The Halfling took the opportunity to hide once again in the dead-end hallway. Two of the goblin archers drew steel and rushed the dwarf cleric while the third ran south for help. The dwarf missed his attack and bravely held the line. PCs 5, goblins 0.
Round 3, six additional goblins hustled from the south to join combat but were unable to attack. The dwarf missed once again and took a minor hit from one of his two attackers. Seeing six more goblins coming up the hall to join the three already present, he called out for his allies to take cover. The player noted that his shielding ability was useless while he stood alone, so the cleric of Pelor moved up behind him but missed with a ray of light. With the other cleric at his side, he thought perhaps some goblins would take shots at the lesser-armored cleric and allow him to negate a hit with his shield. The wizard pegged one of the goblins to the east with a magic missile but merely wounded it, and then took cover in the dead-end hallway. About halfway through the round, everyone heard a deep, guttural battle cry from the western tunnel. I had everyone roll Intelligence to identify it. I also gave advantage to the dwarf fighter for his soldier background, but he rolled very well on both dice anyways. He recognized that it was giantish, and probably an ogre. A lot of concerned looks around the table were made. The player who was already intimately familiar with the caves (and who has been playing since OD&D) merely closed his eyes and nodded. The remaining goblin in the west tunnel hustled to flee around the corner. The fighter (perhaps unwisely) moved even deeper into the western tunnel, up to the corner around which the goblin fled and readied an attack for the first thing to come through. PCs 5, goblins 0
At this point, none of the casters had spent anything other than at-will magic. Only the wizard had taken a solid hit, and he wasn’t even “bloodied.” Nobody else was down more than 3 or 4 HP. Everybody knew that was about to change.
Round 4, both clerics hit, finishing off two of the frontline goblins and moved west to reinforce the fighter. The wizard and rogue waited in the dead-end tunnel in ambush. The seven goblins from the east ran up to the intersection and pelted the clerics, landing a solid hit on the dwarf priest. The wizard stepped forward with burning hands and was able to target five. He rolled poorly on damage, but still ended up frying three of them. The rogue pelted one of the unharmed goblins, killing it. Then, around the corner came the ogre and four goblins backing him up. The fighter landed a crit right off the bat. The ogre got mad and returned the favor, nearly dropping the already-wounded fighter. The goblins tried to shoot through their large friend and were ineffective. PCs 11, goblins 0.
Round 5, the fighter is in trouble. Dwarf cleric hits him with a healing word then moves east again to attack the burning hands survivors but misses yet again. He comments that at least these goblins hold still (4e goblins can shift when missed by a melee attack). The cleric of Pelor, (complaining that his heals are touch-range) moves right behind the fighter and gives him a cure light wounds. Both heals roll average. The wizard finishes off another slightly-toasted goblin with MM. He believes that he would be using shocking grasp more if they were fighting creatures with more HP—magic missile is nearly an auto-kill against a wounded goblin. About this time the thief also realizes that hiding in order to gain advantage against the goblins is also pretty useless—his sling stones also seem to automatically kill them as well. The remaining two goblins engage the dwarf cleric but miss. The rogue decides the fighter needs help and hides behind the priest of Pelor, with the intent to begin firing on the ogre. Luckily this round the ogre misses the fighter. The goblins behind him see a golden opportunity though and slip past their friend and into melee range of the cleric of Pelor. One of these rolls max damage. Once again the fighter curses lack of AoO rules. He misses the ogre and begs the other cleric to come back and grant his shielding ability. PCs 12, goblins 0
Round 6, the fighter rolls poorly and misses the ogre again. The dwarf cleric sees his allies to the west in trouble and abandons the line to the east, rushing one infiltrating goblin and killing it. The Pelorite moves away and obliterates the second with his holy laser. The wizard finishes off another crispy goblin and flees down to the end of the dead-end hallway. Seeing the brutal attacks, the remaining goblin in the east takes a pot shot at the wizard and easily hits, but still flees east. The ogre hits the fighter a second time, again nearly dropping him. The party agrees they need to focus down the ogre, immediately. The dwarven cleric moves adjacent to the fighter and gets in a good hit on the ogre while burning another healing word. The two goblins behind the ogre fire bows but miss. PCs 15, goblins 0
Round 7: Not wanting a survivor, the rogue abandons his stealth against the ogre and chases down the fleeing goblin, taking it out with a sling bullet. The Pelorite burns his second cure on the fighter. The wizard and dwarf cleric both land hits on the ogre, and the dwarf fighter crits once again. Suddenly the tables are turned on the ogre. He throws down his money bag and backs away, shouting “NO KILL! NO KILL!” while the two goblins behind him turn tail and run. PCs 16, goblins 0
Round 8, the party members look at each other, wondering what to do. Both dwarves land blows, although the knight decides to deal nonlethal, with the intent of waking up the ogre and taking it prisoner or hiring it. The ogre drops unconscious. The rogue and wizard want to give chase to the two escaping goblins but change their minds when they hear more goblin shouts down the hall. The wizard player later remembers that he could’ve used ray of frost to stop at least one of them. With healing exhausted (except for the Pelorite’s single potion), the party grabs the money bag, gives the ogre the once-over, and high-tails it out. Last out, the halfling finishes it off, unbeknownst to the knight, who was hoping it would wake up and remember them in the future as the people who showed it mercy.
In the end, the party was happy to have survived an ogre at first level, along with taking out 16 goblins in one go. The wizard actually still has shield and sleep available—he never got a good opportunity to use them—but both clerics are exhausted. The party tries out the short rest mechanic and rolls pretty poorly on hit dice. Everybody wants to go back in but they realize they will need an extended rest. Everyone is still at least a little injured and going back at this point would be suicide. Huzzah 15-minute adventuring day.
Some likes and dislikes:
- The player of the rogue is ambivalent about hide being his best means of getting advantage. He can see though how sneak attack will become quite powerful if it continues to scale at 1d6 per level. He does like the racial ability to hide behind creatures, which rogues were never able to do before. He also likes the skill mastery a lot, but is annoyed that removing traps seems to fall under wisdom (which is his dump stat).
- The player of the Pelor cleric plays a 19th-level healing-focused cleric in 4e and is completely underwhelmed by his healing options. He wants ranged heals like the dwarf cleric, and more of it. He is not happy with the limit of 1 hit die for out-of-combat healing. He also wishes he could channel the turn undead use into something else, like a channel divinity feat. He does like the at-will radiant lance though, which does comparatively more damage than an equivalent 4e at-will. I reminded him that the party just went through an incredibly difficult encounter for their level, and it’s actually surprising that they made it out without casualties.
- The player of the Moradin cleric is a little jealous of the fighter’s attack bonus and damage but realizes that his shield ability is a pretty potent defensive option on top of his spellcasting. He doesn’t like that he had to give up his useful offensive spells in order to heal though, but realizes the fighter likely would have dropped if not for that second healing word (he was at 1 HP). Once again, the cleric’s conundrum—do cool offensive things or be guilted into healing.
- The player of the wizard was pretty happy with his options overall. His at-wills are numerous and strong, and he didn’t even have to use two of his first-level spells. If anything, his low AC has him the most worried. He didn’t even know about spell interruption until later because it never came into play. He says it feels like a cross between a 2e and 4e wizard, and is happy with it. I agree the wizard seems like a pretty good compromise, and especially like the option to cast some spells as rituals. I hope there are a lot of spells like this.
- The player of the fighter is one of those beer-drinking, BSing guys who will play any character at any game and be happy with it, so he didn’t have much to say about the fighter other than that he wishes AoOs were available. He is especially fond of the soldier background which gives him some non-combat options. Who’d have thought—a fighter with rocking intimidate and perception scores? He also would like to have some reliable pushing or proning abilities like a 4e fighter, but it was a moot point against these goblins which he auto-kills on a hit.
- We all appreciated the relative speed of play. The fight ended up taking about 90 minutes for 8 rounds but that included a lot of rules-referencing. We are all used to having the spell effects right in the stat block of the spell as in 4e, so that slowed us down. The fight could be pretty easily duplicated in 4e with a L6 ogre brute and a big pile of goblin minions. The difference is the 4e party would be ready to go at least another 1 or 2 encounters before needing to rest. Another thing we also all liked were the backgrounds and themes. Having a cleric as a “defender” definitely threw us for a loop at first but it worked well in play.
- As DM I wished the monsters had a little more pizazz. 4e ogres get to do cool things like knock targets prone or push them away as part of the attack. I did notice that the stock-standard 4e level 6 brute ogre has just 2HP more than the 5e ogre and thought it was odd when goblins had comparatively much, much lower HP. I also missed little touches like goblin tactics, the 4e goblin racial ability which lets them shift after a melee attack misses them. Stuff like that gives a lot of flavor without being overly intrusive.
Other than those caveats we felt the game played pretty well. The numbers seem pretty solid as far as attacks and checks and saves go. We would all like a little more HP recovery post-combat in order to cut down the need for full rests. With all these modern conveniences like at-will attacks, +CON to starting HP and combat feats available the party still almost died on the first encounter. I can’t imagine what a meatgrinder the Caves of Chaos are in basic D&D with a DM who doesn’t pull punches. We plan on continuing opposite our biweekly 4e game, hopefully this time getting more chances to do real exploration or interaction.
