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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 3400211" data-attributes="member: 8158">The Who's Who didn't make a point of giving hard data like lifting capacity, but it certainly stated that Bats has speant years developing himself to be as good as anyone could get. Cap has fought big 450 lb. mooks that he had to outmaneuver rather than outmuscle (he may be in peak human condition, but he's not at maximum human size). Batman has beaten up superhumanly strong bad guys. Nothing conclusive there.The most conclusive evidence we have is Cap and Bats sparring three times. Two of those instances were a push, and one went to Bats (granted, like most of Marvel Vs. DC, it was kind of a rushed and unsatisfying encounter).I've had this discussion many of times, and it always boils down to this: some people get it into their heads that peak physical condition is unattainable through training and that it can only be achieved through a "cheat" like the super soldier sauce. However, let's think this out. Cap is not supposed to have powers. Rather, he's at the utmost limit of what a human can be without being superhuman. Yet, if Cap's physical qualities are unattainable without external augmentation, then that by definition is superhuman.</blockquote>