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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goblyns Hoard" data-source="post: 1956429" data-attributes="member: 19970">Guys - I think there's a lot of people jumping on Quasequeton for his (I'm making an assumption her Q- sorry if I'm wrong) use of some HOUSE RULES.  Q has a system in which he can roll his NPC skill checks against the PCs.  They then get the chance to role-play their character.  As long as Q isn't saying "OK you failed your intimidate counter-check, you think she's big and scary so you step out of the way quickly and grovel as she goes past" and leaves it up to the player to respond to how the dice roll then everything is fine.  Q started this thread as a "They killed her and I loved her, mourn and celebrate her" - everyone jumping down his throat for the house rules he uses is well out of order IMO.That said - my tuppence:I think this is a great system.  If players want their characters to detect every bluff then their character needs the sense motive skill.  If they don't have enough and the NPC with a maxed out bluff check is lying through his teeth I'd get very suspicous if they decided point blank not to go with it... that way lies metagaming.  If you choose to play a fighter with no social skills or a wizard with maxed out concentration and knowledge arcane then you have to expect a skill based character to whomp your butt every now and then in the social context.  After all in the combat situation you're going to whomp theirs - give them there part of the game.Take as a for instance - two PCs. 1- half-orc barbarian with the social skills of a rat that has been ostracised by the other rats but with a player that knows the other PC is lying.  2- human bard with maxed out bluff, diplomacy, sense motive, the persuasive feat and whatever else you want, king of the social situation and lying through his teeth.  Is it fair that the dice roll will favour the barbarian in the fight but that the bard can't use all the benefits of his character class to persuade the barbarian to join him, just because the player knows something.OK - being forced to join the bard because of a dice roll would piss me off, but so would not being able to use the skills I have.  The answer - use the dice and let the players use them as a basis for their role-playing.  Encourage a suitable response.  Also allow the barbarian the option of starting a fight when he realises he's been duped - it's not all one way afterall, and the bard has to consider the consequences of lying to the really big guy with the axe.And how is that really any different from what Quasequeton has put forward - use the dice as the basis for role-play - give the players the chance and also the responsibility to represent the character's they have created - both their strengths and their weaknesses.  Afterall the DM is part of the game too.</blockquote>

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