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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Puggins" data-source="post: 5425909" data-attributes="member: 12386">Not true.  The rogue always had weapon talent with the dagger.  All essentials does is allow the rogue to swing a rapier with the same talent.  Same accuracy, slightly more damage.You can make the case that the right type of pre-essentials rogue build would be getting CA a lot more than half the time.  A drow rogue, for example, could pull off CA in two rounds without flanking (first strike with hand crossbow or shuriken, then darkfire another round).That's the thief's schtick, though.  The slayer uses a much bigger damage die, has a constant damage bonus that is somewhat comparable to the average sneak attack roll once you figure in stances, has more hit points and is better armored.  I don't see the thief as being over-powered.Remember that the slayer and warlock aren't limited in their damage bonuses every turn, and they can benefit from combat advantage too.You haven't proved otherwise. first, the rogue hits 90% of the time, not 95% (+15 vs. 18ac).  Second CA is not guaranteed, merely extremely likely.  going without CA for one round out of five in a combat seems entirely possible.  Third, check out the optimized slayer:Base +12 attack (+5 str, +3 weapon prof, +1 talent, +2 level, +1 magic) with +1 fullblade at 4th level, hit for d12 + 5 + 3 + 1 + 2 -> 75% chance to do 17.5 damage -> 12.2 DPR, which compares quite well to the ~15 DPR the thief gets if he always have CA.Now compare that to the old ranger.  I'm playing one right now.  At first level my DPR was just shy of 11.0 with twin strike.  At 4th level it tops 15.  And the ranger gets encounter and daily powers.You might be confusing weapons.  A kukri is a superior weapon that is +3/1d4/HC, so a +1 kukri is indeed +4 to hit.</blockquote>

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