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Message: <blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5427371" data-attributes="member: 2011">I wasn't pointing out that current Thieves have advantages that current Rogues do not. I was pointing out that as time has gone on since the original Rogue came out, so many additional options to hit have been added to the game that Thieves can easily hit same level foes 95% of the time with Combat Advantage almost all of the time. The original Rogue's 80% Combat Advantage required a few special powers/items, helpful allies or mostly melee combat range.Since Thieves can get their CA nearly 100% of the time from the safety of the second rank and they don't need allies to give it to them, they get their cake and eat it too. They don't have to risk themselves to the extent that the original Rogue had to.I once had a player quit because he got so upset that his Rogue couldn't tumble away most rounds like he could in 3.5 and his Rogue was constantly getting knocked unconscious because he had to be up in combat, and if he stayed back, he did extremely minor damage.WotC fixed that problem with the Thief, but didn't decrease the awesome to hit nor the awesome damage. I have a second level Thief in my current game who at first level was doing an average of 20.5 damage on a successful hit (and of course, since he has Heroic Effort, he almost never misses).20 points of damage nearly auto-hit against same level foes that have 30 hit points is excessive.It's not just bigger, better, badder of Essentials, it's the splat books as well.People no longer think that 20 DPR for a not too optimized PC is too much at first level anymore. If a PC had that much DPR 2 years ago, people would have been screaming that it was broken. Now, it's ho hum. Part of the status quo.When does the arms race end?</blockquote>

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