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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 9122573" data-attributes="member: 6777737">I think the lack of avenues for spending gold definitely detracts from the concept of adventuring for treasure, but D&D has also generally shifted more towards high fantasy over sword & sorcery. Most of the published modules that WotC has released are about saving the world in some way. You might get rich along the way, but the PCs are motivated by bigger things than just lining their pockets.I don't think that makes the game better or worse, it just makes it different. It's a different taste and a somewhat different style of play, but it's got the same setting.If you want to encourage it again, then I think you simply re-introduce the core elements. Add in XP for GP. Add in training costs and other costly downtime activities, as well as giving the PCs time to actually do them. Add in meaningful hirelings. Add in titles and domains. Add in army and levee costs. AD&D wanted you to claim a fortress north of Dyvers, raise an army, and bring it to bear against Iuz. 5e D&D wants you to go underground for a month and come out 20 levels later with a trophy and a blue ribbon.I think MCDM's Strongholds & Followers and Kingdoms & Warfare add a lot of stuff to do that could be a good way to dispose of gold and wealth. Stuff that makes you better adventurers instead of merely richer nobles. But you could just grab all that added crap from BECMI.I do think 3e was the absolute worst for treasure though, precisely because gold could be turned so readily into items. Everything not nailed down was ripped up and stuffed into a bag of holding so that it could be distilled into magic essence between adventures to get an extra +1 here or +1 there. I was glad 5e didn't emphasize loot so much when the edition released, and I think it's easy to forget how much it was a breath of fresh air in 2014.I think the game has steadily walked away from Thief and towards Rogue in part because of intra-party nonsense. It's also resulted in the Thief getting steadily better in the combat side of things, while also steadily sharing out more and more of those unique abilities. I think that's a good thing, as I think one of the most damning criticisms of B/X and AD&D was that nearly all characters should be trying to do things in dungeons that the game essentially said only Thieves could do.I don't think D&D is entirely well suited to heists as a focus for gameplay. Partially because the stealth mechanics are sparse, but also because lighting and vision are annoyingly complex in D&D. Deception, concealment, and misdirection can also be complicated. And you're likely have a mix of extremely stealthy characters and extremely noisy characters. It's already bad enough telling the Fighter she's barely passable in social situations; telling her she's also useless for exploration is the last straw.[HR][/HR]Eh. This feels a little disingenuous. Beyond spell components, healing potions, silver blades, quivers, and full plate armor, there isn't much that you can buy that helps with the core gameplay loop of being an adventurer. For most characters, the first 5,000 gp you get will get you through an entire campaign and then some, provided you don't die."There's nothing to buy," is a fair criticism. There's no more domain management retirement game. There's no mass combat rules or castle rules. There's hardly any siege weaponry rules. Hirelings aren't really written to adventure with you. Outside of mounts and vehicles, there aren't even extraordinary purchases in the PHB or DMG. Sure, you can invent things all on your own, but isn't not needing to do that kind of why we bought books? Like why doesn't the game also say, "Magic can do wonderous things," and then let you write all your own spells with no examples? The books are there to guide the players and DMs and show what you will probably want or need.When we played Out of the Abyss, we got to a certain level (early teens) and the party looked at our treasure and realized that we probably couldn't actually spend it all before the campaign ended. At that point we cast Heroes' Feast literally every adventuring day. That sounds excessive, but in reality it was like 12 adventuring days, and it was only 1,000 gp a day! 12,000 gp to be immune to poison, fear, have advantage on Wis saves, and get 10 extra hp every day. Covering like four experience levels! Oh, and it also provides food and drink. "Oh, but how did you have that many gem chalices?" "We have teleport! We go buy a gem-encrusted dinnerware set, and throw away everything except the bowls and cups!"[HR][/HR]Eh. The reason Gygax is infamous for having monsters and traps that subvert the dungeon tropes is because he was there for the tropes to be established. Sure, in a Gygax dungeon the door is a mimic, the treasure is an illusion covering a pit of green slime, and the monsters are polymorphed nobles that you were in the dungeon to rescue... but he did know what you expected to find!</blockquote>

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