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Thievery in 5e - still relevant?
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<blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9139032" data-attributes="member: 6877472"><p>Excuse me, I'm not using an interpretation of the rules to be restrictive, lol. I'm telling you what I've endured personally, as to why I feel Stealth is a sucker's game.</p><p></p><p>But more to the point: </p><p></p><p>Group ChecksTo make a group ability check, <strong>everyone in the group makes the ability check</strong>. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails. Group checks don't come up very often, and they're most useful when all the characters succeed or fail as a group.</p><p></p><p>So if our group has a heavy armored Fighter (untrained, Dex, say, I don't know, 12?), a medium-to-heavy armored Cleric (untrained, Dex ranging from 10-14), a Wizard (untrained, Dex 14-16), and a Rogue (trained, maybe expertise, Dex 16 or better), hang on, let me math...</p><p></p><p>Ok average roll with disadvantage is 7.18, average roll is 10.5....so we'll say our hypothetical results are...</p><p></p><p>Fighter 8, Cleric (halfplate 14 Dex*) 9, Wizard 13, Rogue 17....the group fails if the passive perception of foes is 13. Which I'll grant, is better odds than I've seen in play. So on paper at least, you're correct that my argument here is based on anecdotal knowledge, not real data. And maybe I gave up on Stealth in 5e too soon, given my horrible experiences with it in previous editions.</p><p></p><p>*The Breastplate exists, but I've never seen anyone use it at a table; they either have much cheaper medium armor and are fine with that, or if they upgrade, they want the best AC. YMMV!</p><p></p><p>OTOH, group composition matters. A character can't expect Stealth to work just because they're good at it, which still puts it somewhat at odds with other kinds of ability checks (above and beyond the already swingy nature of ability checks in 5e). They either need to put themselves at a distance from their party (which could lead to a solo encounter if they are unlucky) or, if possible, ask some important questions during Session Zero about the playstyle and builds of their fellows.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James Gasik, post: 9139032, member: 6877472"] Excuse me, I'm not using an interpretation of the rules to be restrictive, lol. I'm telling you what I've endured personally, as to why I feel Stealth is a sucker's game. But more to the point: Group ChecksTo make a group ability check, [B]everyone in the group makes the ability check[/B]. If at least half the group succeeds, the whole group succeeds. Otherwise, the group fails. Group checks don't come up very often, and they're most useful when all the characters succeed or fail as a group. So if our group has a heavy armored Fighter (untrained, Dex, say, I don't know, 12?), a medium-to-heavy armored Cleric (untrained, Dex ranging from 10-14), a Wizard (untrained, Dex 14-16), and a Rogue (trained, maybe expertise, Dex 16 or better), hang on, let me math... Ok average roll with disadvantage is 7.18, average roll is 10.5....so we'll say our hypothetical results are... Fighter 8, Cleric (halfplate 14 Dex*) 9, Wizard 13, Rogue 17....the group fails if the passive perception of foes is 13. Which I'll grant, is better odds than I've seen in play. So on paper at least, you're correct that my argument here is based on anecdotal knowledge, not real data. And maybe I gave up on Stealth in 5e too soon, given my horrible experiences with it in previous editions. *The Breastplate exists, but I've never seen anyone use it at a table; they either have much cheaper medium armor and are fine with that, or if they upgrade, they want the best AC. YMMV! OTOH, group composition matters. A character can't expect Stealth to work just because they're good at it, which still puts it somewhat at odds with other kinds of ability checks (above and beyond the already swingy nature of ability checks in 5e). They either need to put themselves at a distance from their party (which could lead to a solo encounter if they are unlucky) or, if possible, ask some important questions during Session Zero about the playstyle and builds of their fellows. [/QUOTE]
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