Thieves Guild: How would it work? DM Advice.

[Gizzard]

Some of my players want to join the local Thieves Guild. They set up an exploratory meeting with a local member; he's set them up with another meeting later with someone with some decision-making power.

I'm trying to figure how a Thieves Guild would start new members or test potential members. I figure that it would probably be pretty rough; the Guild needs to shake out spies and informers; it also needs to make sure that it doesnt hire a bunch of incompetent wannabes.

So, what form would the test take? And what would happen if you fail? (Its pretty clear what would happen to informers, but what about dorky poseurs?)

PS. I assume also that the Guild would have its fingers in many pies; theft, illicit substances and goods, protection, gambling being the bulk of their business.

 

[pogre]

The guild would require the potential member to do something illegal straight off to check if they are a mole. Naturally, they would not solicit the crime (that would be illegal), but would suggest it. "I truly would admire someone who could steal the Queen's red shoes."

What the task is depends on your campaign, although I like asking potential new member to write "Romans go home" in the city square for a start. Oh wait, that's a different group altogether.

 

[Torx]

Another idea would be for the guild to deny membership altogether. They don't trust outsiders, lowlifes, whatever. Then the PC's get wind of some heist the guild is about to pull and they beat 'em to the punch. The guild then approaches them with a "join us or else" proposal and they're in!

Otherwise, depending on the size of the guild (you suggested fingers in many pies, requiring many fingers), I would suggest the PC's not actually meeting the head boss for some time. A lieutenant will do, always euphamistically referring to the boss as simply "The Boss" or some other neat nickname.

If characters are low-level and the guild requires some form of test for entrance, pure thievery does not always have to be the case (Defacement does work "Romanes Eunt Domus" hehe). Smuggling is always a good one, and high tension as well. Taking part in a protection racket beating will also work, and truly test loyalties!

Another important aspect to determine is the overall alignment of the guild. While most are on the chaotic side of the law-chaos axis, the good-evil axis can play a large role in what form any entrance test would be. Also what kind of operations the guild performs. Some form of front, or lawful operation, is recommended, along with plenty of legal aide (in the form of a bribed judge or two).

Anyways, some ideas to get ya goin!

 

[Buttercup]

To make the players nervous, the guy from the initial meeting should end up dead in such a way that they can't mistake the reason...he's dead because he talked to them.

Have someone throw a brick with an attached note through their window that gives them further instructions. Don't let them meet *anyone* from the guild for a long time. But do give them the idea that they're being watched constantly. Messages to them could be painted on walls, carved into tree trunks or door posts, attached to arrows that narrowly miss them, or slipped under their door in the dead of night.

Scare the begeezus out of 'em! It will make the reward that much more interesting when the do finally gain admittance. At that point, they may be having second thoughts, but it will be too late.

 

[Datt]

There is another way if you want them to be in the guild and are just trying to figure out how. In the Stronghold Builders Guidebook there is a Training Area: Rogue. Have them go into this kind of area with a member of the guild. I agree not the boss as they are too lowly right now to meet the big guy. In this training area there are several different tests for theives. Such as a training dummy with bells attached. Say they have to take off so many in a certain amount of time, and if any bell rings then they fail. This would be for the pick pockets. There are also things to test stealth, lock picking, and such. Make them run a gammit of things and set standards. If they meet the standards they are in. If they just barely fail, they might be in but under a Lt. who will train them so they can get better. IF they fail miserably they are out and threatened for wasting the guild's time.

 

[Vaxalon]

IMC, anyone who ASKS to join the guild is immediately pegged as a spy, and an incompetent one, to boot.

You don't ask to join the guild, the guild forces you to join it, if they think you're the right type.

Instead, you have to start doing the things the guild does. Basically, start stealing stuff. If you're a danger to their monopoly, they'll contact you.

 

[Tonguez]

Oliver Twist

Fagan was a smalltime crook who kept a gang of pickpockets. He was 'overseen' by the Thug Bill Sikes who no doubt was part of the outer circle of 'Gangsters'

These Gangsters in turn have a link with the real 'Guild' made up of the gentleman gansters and the crime bosses.

Any new players will not get anywhere near the real guild for sometime. A small time crook (like the PCs) might get the attention of the Gangs and be approached as 'Prospects'

A Prospect is dirt - they might be asked to sell minor drugs, to do burgalries (and past the money/goods on to the gang) and if they are really lucky to deliver a package (of illegal drugs for instance) to a buyer.

After a while the Prospect might gain recognition as a gang member and might then rise in status so that they have contact with the Guild

Only if the PCs pull off something exceptional (like stealling the Queens Red Shoes) or if they have contacts (eg Uncle Khazik Axegrinder is an Enforcer in the Dwarfen Mafiya which is incharge of the Guilds exhortion rackets in the Dwarf ghettos) will they bypass the gangs and go straight to the guild level

 

[Brisk-sg]

Unless they are exceptional individuals who are well know by society (and thus valuable assets), I would just have them handed off to a very minor member of the guild as his enforcers/lackeys. This will keep them away from any business involving senior members of the guild until they have proven their worth. After they have proven their worth, they can be moved slowly up the chain.

In reality, organized crime is often a form pyramid scheme or feudal system, with your boss being the person right above you. At the lowest rung, you don't have your own rackets going; you just do what you are told with little initiative of your own. As you move up, you get to do your own things, paying a cut to the person above you, who pays a cut to the person above him, ect.

This helps protect the leaders of the guild from the law, as they seldom involve themselves in the day to day crimes. They only act in ways that will bring large or long term wealth/power to themselves and the organization. And normally they do this through trusted proxies.

- Josh

 

[Gizzard]

You don't ask to join the guild, the guild forces you to join it, if they think you're the right type.

This is the way I see it; but my (rogue) players seem to see the Guild mostly as a place to train or set up further adventures. Hence the question about what the Guild would do with incompetent (low level) but pesky applicants.

A Prospect is dirt - they might be asked to sell minor drugs, to do burgalries (and past the money/goods on to the gang) and if they are really lucky to deliver a package (of illegal drugs for instance) to a buyer.

This is also along the lines of what I imagined would happen. But when you break it down into game terms, its a little harder to hold together. The two most promising areas probably are theft and drug dealing:

Illicit substances: Is it fun for my players to be low-level drug dealers? Eeek! I can probably gel something up that's fun for the short term; but I know my players are thinking "Thieves Guild", not "Drug Dealers Guild". The dealing itself must be terribly boring, but by focusing on the scams and the territorial dangers maybe the job is interesting.

Theft: I wonder if a street boss just turns his guys loose in a certain area and tells them to come back with X gold pieces by next Tuesday. Or else. This seems reasonable to me, and it would certainly add a bunch of tension to the players lives. But from a DM point of view its not so tightly controlled as the drug dealing scenario.

As for Protection & Gambling, I dont really have any ideas for fitting the players in in an interesting, long-term way.

 

[LostSoul]

They should do all the boring grunt work that the "made" guys don't want to do. Or some of the lower-key stuff that the "made" guys don't want to dirty their hands with if they are caught. The higher-ups, which they won't get to meet very often, will treat them like dirt. Their contact will treat them like dirt, too.

I don't know how well it would work in a role-playing game. Maybe you can have them provide extra bodies in a certain situation when everything goes to pot. Throw in a lot of guild intrigue, maybe a rift between two factions in the guild itself or some outside (and hella scary) group trying to muscle in on the guild's territory.