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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Shiroiken" data-source="post: 6585521" data-attributes="member: 6775477">Actually, this IS the middle-ground. In 4E, the only difference between skilled and unskilled was a flat +5 difference. With the way 4E was setup, this difference became smaller as time when on, compared to 1/2 level and ability modifier. With 5E, Skills are helpful, but not necessary.As to niche protection... I actually agree to a small extent. 5E set itself up to remove the need for any single class and/or role (healer is up for debate, but that's another argument altogether). This is generally a good thing, but it meant an adjustment on the old school Thief/Rogue mentality. Due to Expertise, they are much better than anyone just trained in the skill, but they still don't break the overall math. They have greater combat utility now, which tends to makes up for it.</blockquote>