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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6586429" data-attributes="member: 996">Every time one of their spells overcomes a challenge or obstacle.&nbsp; Casters can do /lots/ of things others can't, every time they do, it's their game - and that's, really, most challenges other than straight-up, toe-to-toe combat.&nbsp; Even in combat, which is mostly just a focus-fire, DPR grind (and not a slow grind), if a spell turns the tide, sweeps away a numeric advantage that would be telling under bounded accuracy, renders an important enemy helpless for a round or two, removes or creates a battlefield constraint, or brings the right damage/effect the particular gotchya monster is vulnerable to, it's likely the highlight of the encounter.&nbsp; &nbsp;Magic items aren't assumed in 5e, so what do you do when you need to hit the creature that only magic weapons will harm, have a caster cast, well, 'magic weapon.'&nbsp; Immune to one or several types of damage is just part of the fun:&nbsp; it's part of the caster challenge to bring the right damage or the right effect against the right save (or no save at all), like a puzzle.&nbsp; When you do - and, if you're reviewing the MM in detail, you're likely going to, a lot - that's your moment, too.&nbsp; Of course, all that's going to vary with the party composition, campaign pacing and tone, nature of challenges and whether they're telegraphed at all, and all sorts of DM-specific and campaign-specific variables.&nbsp; Having a number of mechanics that can shut down casters in a specific combat or vs a specific monster gives the DM a tool to bring other characters to the forefront if casters are, in his campaign, at that time, hogging the glory or dominating play or however you want to put just plain having more power &amp; versatility, and happening to use it well.&nbsp; When he doesn't need that tool, he can leave it in the box.The idea that all, or even most, encounters should be something every class can participate fully in is antithetical to 5e's class design philosophy, where each class is mechanically distinct and 'best,' at something.&nbsp; I don't think that's really what you're trying to get at, but it was starting to feel like we were sliding in that direction....</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6586429, member: 996"] Every time one of their spells overcomes a challenge or obstacle. Casters can do /lots/ of things others can't, every time they do, it's their game - and that's, really, most challenges other than straight-up, toe-to-toe combat. Even in combat, which is mostly just a focus-fire, DPR grind (and not a slow grind), if a spell turns the tide, sweeps away a numeric advantage that would be telling under bounded accuracy, renders an important enemy helpless for a round or two, removes or creates a battlefield constraint, or brings the right damage/effect the particular gotchya monster is vulnerable to, it's likely the highlight of the encounter. Magic items aren't assumed in 5e, so what do you do when you need to hit the creature that only magic weapons will harm, have a caster cast, well, 'magic weapon.' Immune to one or several types of damage is just part of the fun: it's part of the caster challenge to bring the right damage or the right effect against the right save (or no save at all), like a puzzle. When you do - and, if you're reviewing the MM in detail, you're likely going to, a lot - that's your moment, too. Of course, all that's going to vary with the party composition, campaign pacing and tone, nature of challenges and whether they're telegraphed at all, and all sorts of DM-specific and campaign-specific variables. Having a number of mechanics that can shut down casters in a specific combat or vs a specific monster gives the DM a tool to bring other characters to the forefront if casters are, in his campaign, at that time, hogging the glory or dominating play or however you want to put just plain having more power & versatility, and happening to use it well. When he doesn't need that tool, he can leave it in the box. The idea that all, or even most, encounters should be something every class can participate fully in is antithetical to 5e's class design philosophy, where each class is mechanically distinct and 'best,' at something. I don't think that's really what you're trying to get at, but it was starting to feel like we were sliding in that direction.... [/QUOTE]

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