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things i like/dislike about dungeon delve - sort of a review
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<blockquote data-quote="evilbob" data-source="post: 4696710" data-attributes="member: 9789"><p>This isn't really a complete review, but just a few quick thoughts after purchasing the book and thumbing through. I thought I'd post for other folks who are still sitting on the fence after reading some reviews (which all seem to just tell you what it is and not more) and trying to decide whether or not to take the plunge.</p><p></p><p>Things I disliked:</p><p></p><p>- Introductory attitude. I recommend skipping pages 4-7. The "introduction" is just a self-congratulatory explanation of why the authors think this book is awesome. It seriously almost kept me from buying the book. Also, I really dislike the whole "DM vs. party" page, because frankly, the absolute best way to keep people from playing D&D ever again is to play it DM vs. party. I know; I've seen it happen. This is at best an advanced idea to be used by folks who already know the game and want to fool around; as advice for newbies it is TERRIBLE. It's easily the worst page in the book.</p><p></p><p>- Marketing constraints. For anyone who was afraid that a huge corporate publisher might reign in creativity, you just got vindicated. They were so concerned with pushing related product - dungeon tiles - that the last two thirds of the book are really constrained when it comes to locations and maps. For heroic levels it's not bad, but otherwise the lack of creative map design due to the clear constraint to stay within the approved product range is really, really sad. The best thing you can do with later maps is to throw them away and make up your own using the same encounter groups: they will be better.</p><p></p><p>- I don't think this is a trend but the first encounter I looked at - level 3 - is a guaranteed TPK. I don't mean it might happen, I mean it is 100% without DM intervention. You just can't fight an n+5 elite with more HP than the entire party combined and 3 other >n enemies at the end of a third encounter and live. (I've seen what an n+5 elite can do by itself. When you have to roll above 15 to hit something with 5x your HP, it's not good.) I haven't noticed any other encounters this lop-sided, but this one stood out. Others seemed "hard" or "very hard," with a few "slightly hard" ones thrown in, too.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Things I liked:</p><p></p><p>- Convenience. This is really the whole selling point of the book, but it works. Each encounter is laid out similarly to the stuff in the back of the DMG, and they made sure that absolutely everything you need to run each encounter fits on two (facing) pages. That. Is. Awesome. No more flipping around the MM!!! I cannot stress enough how great this is for a DM. Plus, they did all the math for you, too. Monsters in the encounters have been up-leveled and down-leveled occasionally (no need to figure) and all the XP and treasure totals have been laid out (although specific treasure must be chosen by the DM, but you were going to do that, anyway). I haven't checked to see if these numbers are correct or not (I'm guessing not, since even the short DMG adventure had tons of errors) but it's nice to have something.</p><p></p><p>- Good ideas. You can tell that even though they were heavily constrained, the authors did what they could to have a very wide variety of encounter flavors - which is cool, because the book could have been done without them. Plus, it's so easy to reskin things, you effectively have a variety of encounters that would work for wherever you want.</p><p></p><p>- A great gift. This is a perfect tool for the budding DM(s) in your group who finally decided to give 4.0 a try. Get it, use it, and pass it around for others to play with when you're strapped for time or someone else wants to give it a whirl: like I said, the maps are forgettable so toss them, reskin the enemies, and you have a new encounter in about 2 minutes. Just be sure to rip page 7 out of the book so they don't accidentally ruin the game for others. (And warn them about encounter 3.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Would I recommend it? Well, no. Frankly, between the encounter builder, the MM, and your own creativity, you've already got plenty of tools to make excellent encounters. There is absolutely zero that this book has to offer for anyone who is a good DM or has been at the job for a while, except pre-printed pages that offer quick and easy tools to just throw something together. That said: who hasn't occasionally just wished they had a pre-printed tool so they could just throw something together? It's a decent resource if you're low on time (who isn't?) and a very good resource if you're a brand new DM and scared to just jump out there on your own (it's ok - you can do it without this book!).</p><p></p><p>Why did I get it? Because I occasionally wished that I had a pre-printed tool that would allow me to just throw something together. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I think the list price is too steep; honestly it's not bad as a $20 book, but $30 is definitely too much. (Go through Amazon.) But, on the other hand this product was MADE to be used as a book, and I don't think it'd be quite as good or useful as a PDF (although you can get the PDF for basically 1/2 price right now, I noticed).</p><p></p><p>Hope this helps folks make up their mind if they haven't already! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="evilbob, post: 4696710, member: 9789"] This isn't really a complete review, but just a few quick thoughts after purchasing the book and thumbing through. I thought I'd post for other folks who are still sitting on the fence after reading some reviews (which all seem to just tell you what it is and not more) and trying to decide whether or not to take the plunge. Things I disliked: - Introductory attitude. I recommend skipping pages 4-7. The "introduction" is just a self-congratulatory explanation of why the authors think this book is awesome. It seriously almost kept me from buying the book. Also, I really dislike the whole "DM vs. party" page, because frankly, the absolute best way to keep people from playing D&D ever again is to play it DM vs. party. I know; I've seen it happen. This is at best an advanced idea to be used by folks who already know the game and want to fool around; as advice for newbies it is TERRIBLE. It's easily the worst page in the book. - Marketing constraints. For anyone who was afraid that a huge corporate publisher might reign in creativity, you just got vindicated. They were so concerned with pushing related product - dungeon tiles - that the last two thirds of the book are really constrained when it comes to locations and maps. For heroic levels it's not bad, but otherwise the lack of creative map design due to the clear constraint to stay within the approved product range is really, really sad. The best thing you can do with later maps is to throw them away and make up your own using the same encounter groups: they will be better. - I don't think this is a trend but the first encounter I looked at - level 3 - is a guaranteed TPK. I don't mean it might happen, I mean it is 100% without DM intervention. You just can't fight an n+5 elite with more HP than the entire party combined and 3 other >n enemies at the end of a third encounter and live. (I've seen what an n+5 elite can do by itself. When you have to roll above 15 to hit something with 5x your HP, it's not good.) I haven't noticed any other encounters this lop-sided, but this one stood out. Others seemed "hard" or "very hard," with a few "slightly hard" ones thrown in, too. Things I liked: - Convenience. This is really the whole selling point of the book, but it works. Each encounter is laid out similarly to the stuff in the back of the DMG, and they made sure that absolutely everything you need to run each encounter fits on two (facing) pages. That. Is. Awesome. No more flipping around the MM!!! I cannot stress enough how great this is for a DM. Plus, they did all the math for you, too. Monsters in the encounters have been up-leveled and down-leveled occasionally (no need to figure) and all the XP and treasure totals have been laid out (although specific treasure must be chosen by the DM, but you were going to do that, anyway). I haven't checked to see if these numbers are correct or not (I'm guessing not, since even the short DMG adventure had tons of errors) but it's nice to have something. - Good ideas. You can tell that even though they were heavily constrained, the authors did what they could to have a very wide variety of encounter flavors - which is cool, because the book could have been done without them. Plus, it's so easy to reskin things, you effectively have a variety of encounters that would work for wherever you want. - A great gift. This is a perfect tool for the budding DM(s) in your group who finally decided to give 4.0 a try. Get it, use it, and pass it around for others to play with when you're strapped for time or someone else wants to give it a whirl: like I said, the maps are forgettable so toss them, reskin the enemies, and you have a new encounter in about 2 minutes. Just be sure to rip page 7 out of the book so they don't accidentally ruin the game for others. (And warn them about encounter 3.) Would I recommend it? Well, no. Frankly, between the encounter builder, the MM, and your own creativity, you've already got plenty of tools to make excellent encounters. There is absolutely zero that this book has to offer for anyone who is a good DM or has been at the job for a while, except pre-printed pages that offer quick and easy tools to just throw something together. That said: who hasn't occasionally just wished they had a pre-printed tool so they could just throw something together? It's a decent resource if you're low on time (who isn't?) and a very good resource if you're a brand new DM and scared to just jump out there on your own (it's ok - you can do it without this book!). Why did I get it? Because I occasionally wished that I had a pre-printed tool that would allow me to just throw something together. :) I think the list price is too steep; honestly it's not bad as a $20 book, but $30 is definitely too much. (Go through Amazon.) But, on the other hand this product was MADE to be used as a book, and I don't think it'd be quite as good or useful as a PDF (although you can get the PDF for basically 1/2 price right now, I noticed). Hope this helps folks make up their mind if they haven't already! :) [/QUOTE]
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things i like/dislike about dungeon delve - sort of a review
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