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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Things I really like about 4e (and how they could be better)
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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 5628502" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>This is true. Although the trend at the moment seems to be towards shorter adventures generally (or adventures in multiple short parts, which could easily incorporate downtime into them). Still, I see your point.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>One of the features of the old dungeons that seems to be overlooked in newer designs is that the assumption was that the party <em>wouldn't</em> try to tackle these in one delve - they'd progress some way through the dungeon, then return to town to heal up and re-equip. So, in fact, they'd tend not to be a single adventure, but actually <em>multiple adventures in the same location</em>.</p><p></p><p>(And, of course, this makes sense - if you're tracking ammunition, rations, and healing potions, you actually already have a bunch of per-adventure resources anyway. Eventually, you're going to have to retreat to restock.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If it bothered me enough, I'd rule that "you must take an Extended Rest every 24 hours or become fatigued", or something like that.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think this is the killer point. While the adventure concept still works, the balancing of encounters needs to be <em>very</em> careful to work.</p><p></p><p>In the current model, if you structure an adventure with a time limit, and then the PCs have a really bad first encounter (whether because you misjudged the difficulty, they rolled really poorly, or whatever), then suddenly the whole adventure is in real trouble. However, you can at least build in time for, say, 2 ERests, and all is well.</p><p></p><p>In the per-adventure resource model, ERests can't help - they either struggle on at a huge disadvantage or admit defeat. Which is hardly heroic. (Though... how much do we mind the heroes failing adventures?)</p><p></p><p>To solve that (and 15m/AD) you'd need either pure per-encounter balancing or a recharge mechanic, or something. And at this point, we're probably nearing the point where the cure is worse than the disease.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I like this. Start the day with 1 AP and no dailies. After every odd-numbered encounter gain a daily; after every even-numbered encounter gain an AP. Or something like that - basically, give a reward after each adventure.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I did think that published adventures intended to cover multiple (PC) levels should have written in "levelling points" - if and when the PCs reach that point (and not until), they gain the appropriate level (and possibly treasure to match).</p><p></p><p>This eliminates the need for any 'filler' encounters to make up XP awards, it means that if the PCs miss encounters or treasure, they're still able to proceed, and it means that the DM can abridge (or expand) the adventure without issue.</p><p></p><p>But it's also <em>really</em> gamist. Not sure if that's a problem.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I really like this idea.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 5628502, member: 22424"] This is true. Although the trend at the moment seems to be towards shorter adventures generally (or adventures in multiple short parts, which could easily incorporate downtime into them). Still, I see your point. One of the features of the old dungeons that seems to be overlooked in newer designs is that the assumption was that the party [i]wouldn't[/i] try to tackle these in one delve - they'd progress some way through the dungeon, then return to town to heal up and re-equip. So, in fact, they'd tend not to be a single adventure, but actually [i]multiple adventures in the same location[/i]. (And, of course, this makes sense - if you're tracking ammunition, rations, and healing potions, you actually already have a bunch of per-adventure resources anyway. Eventually, you're going to have to retreat to restock.) If it bothered me enough, I'd rule that "you must take an Extended Rest every 24 hours or become fatigued", or something like that. I think this is the killer point. While the adventure concept still works, the balancing of encounters needs to be [i]very[/i] careful to work. In the current model, if you structure an adventure with a time limit, and then the PCs have a really bad first encounter (whether because you misjudged the difficulty, they rolled really poorly, or whatever), then suddenly the whole adventure is in real trouble. However, you can at least build in time for, say, 2 ERests, and all is well. In the per-adventure resource model, ERests can't help - they either struggle on at a huge disadvantage or admit defeat. Which is hardly heroic. (Though... how much do we mind the heroes failing adventures?) To solve that (and 15m/AD) you'd need either pure per-encounter balancing or a recharge mechanic, or something. And at this point, we're probably nearing the point where the cure is worse than the disease. Yeah, I like this. Start the day with 1 AP and no dailies. After every odd-numbered encounter gain a daily; after every even-numbered encounter gain an AP. Or something like that - basically, give a reward after each adventure. I did think that published adventures intended to cover multiple (PC) levels should have written in "levelling points" - if and when the PCs reach that point (and not until), they gain the appropriate level (and possibly treasure to match). This eliminates the need for any 'filler' encounters to make up XP awards, it means that if the PCs miss encounters or treasure, they're still able to proceed, and it means that the DM can abridge (or expand) the adventure without issue. But it's also [i]really[/i] gamist. Not sure if that's a problem. I really like this idea. [/QUOTE]
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