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Message: <blockquote data-quote="teitan" data-source="post: 1571058" data-attributes="member: 3457">Well, as a practicing Occultist and follower of Crowley I can tell you that magick is a heck of a lot more than studying ancient tomes and performance of ritual. Western Magick is just as much about being a Priest and Prophet, not just for yourself but for those around you as Christianity etc. Sure, the secrets of western occultism are contained in musty tomes and hidden in Da Vinci's paintings, but heck, they are also plainly stated in various books from Donald Michael Kraig to Dan Brown. There is no divide between arcane magick and divine magick to us, there is only MAGICK.At any rate, what bothers me about D&D is the move away from a rules lite system. I mean 3E could have still been very similar to 1 or 2e without skills and feats etc. Don't get me wrong, I think 3E is a superior system in terms of playability etc. I am just feeling nostalgic for my 1E days.I get irked by the magic divide when I want to run a specific style, I love AU's magic system BUT not all of those classes represent an archetype as easily or smoothly as some of the D&D classes like the Rogue or Ranger. They get close at times. I will sometimes start developing ideas for a new campaign and I feel torn between AU because of the magic system and D&D for its pure classical feel.Clerics... I understand the issues with them. I don't think they are overpowered personally but I see why many do. As far as their abilities, I don't necessarily see their powers as granted by their god per se, sure FR says that and GH implies it a little less than FR, but what I see clerics as are the warrior arm of the church. Not always the wisest or most learned but they travel to spread the word of their faith and their magic comes from their ability to channel the energies of life and death and their domains reflect their temperament and what aspect of their deity they most identify with on a very personal and intangible level, almost indefinable by the cleric because it is a matter of FAITH and FAITH can not be defined easily. The god doesn't grant them their spells, but their faith in their god grants them their spells. I love the Realms but on of my few nitpicks is that the gods are so hands on and really fs this idea of divine magic up. As far as the Cleric as priest thing, the 1e clerics were very much Crusader Knights like Templars and Hospitalers and when 2E brought us Priests, Clerics went almost totally away as an optional rule in the PHB. Divine Spellcasters became priests as opposed to the adventuring arm of their church. In 3e, Adkison seemed to have wanted a more 1e feel to the products, y'know, when people bought and played D&D en masse as opposed to 2e which never outsold 1e... anyway, Clerics returned and in order to retain some of the old specialist priest flavour (introduced in Greyhawk Adventures!) we got the domains and a rather confused picture of what Clerics are as opposed to priest. What we need in the DMG is a NPC class that represents the nonadventuring priest and not just the Aristocrat or Adept, maybe something inbetween? Anyway, the Clerics material components represent a focus for his will.Mages... Again, I understand but how I view Arcane magic is this... Wizards are working with the air that surrounds them and weaving the five elements together to create their desired effect. Arcane magic does not come from within so much as from an understanding of the mutable laws of nature and how to manipulate them to your purposes. This even includes the ambient positive and negative energy inherent in the air. A mage draws the energy for his spells out of his components like a vampire leeches the life out of his victims.At least, that is my understanding of what Clerics, Priests and Mages are...Jason</blockquote>

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