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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elf Witch" data-source="post: 6072501" data-attributes="member: 9037">My argument is only flawed if you approach it from  niche protection which is gamest in nature not  simulation in nature. That only rogues who put points in skills are intimidating rogues that don't are not and you said any character can do this that is my argument  if it is a cross class skill they are handicapped in being able to do it as well as a class that gets it as a class skill and that right there is my problem with it. And it is a huge flaw in the way DnD is designed and it looks like they are going to continue with it in next. Any class can have a background in learning techniques in which to intimidate people.  Just like appraise what if my background is being raised and trained by a master jeweler but I can't deny the magic flowing in my blood. So I will never be as good as a rogue simply because I don't steal jewels?  We can go around and around on this and we will never agree. I will always be in the camp of making characters more able to be customized not less and to depend less on archetypes as the norm. You should be able to build a archetype but it should not be hard to build a character that is not.Archetypes get boring after awhile because again they are basically the same and have an artificial imposed limitation on abilities.I know I bring Shadowrun up a lot ,maybe because it is my favorite system, but I like how they do skills they are not limited by class but by how many points you want to put into something. So my hermetic mage elf also has a better than average ability with handguns, has an edge when it comes to learning languages, has a vast knowledge of music especially jazz and Elvis Presley and is a master when it comes to motorcycle repair and motorcycle racing. And this could be true if she was street sam, decker, rigger or a shaman. I want the same ability to customize a character in DnD. I think it makes for more interesting and varied characters. I agree with what you are saying about having to pay or have some other access to libraries but the way the game is set up it does not allow for say a magic guild that accepts other classes besides wizards as members. In my roommates game the Blue Star Guild accepts sorcerers, and certain warlocks who get their eldritch power either from the celestial plane or from nature. She tweaked the warlock class and it is not all demonic and the color of your energy blast tell from where they come from. Silvery for celestial, greenish gold from nature and reddish black from a demonic source. A character who plays a warlock or sorcerer who has the background educated at the guild can start the game with any knowledge skill and if they stay a member of the guild which means giving up 10% of all treasure gets other benefits as well. In my campaign the wizard guilds and colleges are powerful and they don'rt want to share that so they discriminate against sorcerers and out and out burn at the stake warlocks and psionist. So if I had a player playing a sorcerer who had knowledge skills which I allow I would ask how to learned them. Part of my house rule on open class skills is you have to justify in your background certain ones. Most of the DMs I have played with have allowed sorcerers a D6 and changed the skill list to lie you said pick 4 or have gotten rid of cross class skills. I like a lot of what Pathfinder did with the sorcerer with the bloodlines. When I play a sorcerer I like to pick a school that is the main influence and the bulk of spells come from there.</blockquote>

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