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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flamestrike" data-source="post: 6619075" data-attributes="member: 6788736">And someone properly trained (the Skulker feat) can fire at someone from hiding all day long (and as long as they keep missing) can remain hidden while doing so.Your argument though boils down to what I've been urging you to do. Apply common sense to the situation. If a monster knows where you are, you cant hide from it. If it doesnt, you can try.There is consistency, as long as the DM is consistent. You don't need rules to be consistent (in fact this is impossible with any rule that requires interpretation... which is every single rule!); you need a consistent DM.It's no more absurd that a Rogue popping in and out of a barrel, shooting someone, and claiming to be hidden once he ducks back down. He's not 'hidden' in any sense of the word.No, they're not. Youre reading a plain English explanation of hiding as a rule. Try reading the phrase 'You cant hide when someone is watching you' as if you read it in a story or a book, or via a conversation with a person outside of a DnD gamist/ turn based/ rules interpretation.Apply subjective real world common sense to it, and stop reading it as an objective 'in game' rule.But Halfling Rogues can hide behind comrades. They just cant do it when someone is watching them.The Halfling can hide behind Harry the fighter before Harry opens the door to the room. Once Harry opens the door he spots 5 Orcs. Harry steps into the room (with the Halfling following him) and demands the Orcs surrender. As long as the Orcs passive perception doesnt beat the Halflings Stealth check they dont notice the Halfling.Assume the negotiations end badly after a few seconds and hostilities break out. On the Halflings turn he can pop out from behind Harry and shoot an Orc in the face (with advantage). But after he makes that attack (barring him also having the Skulker feat) his location and position are known. The Orcs notice him now (finally) and he is no longer hidden. He now can not attempt to Hide again as the Orcs are aware of his presence and are observing him (listening for and watching him).If our Halfling buddy had the Skulker feat and missed with the attack, he would not reveal his position and would remain in hiding until he hit (or otherwise revealed his position). Once he does though, the gig is up and he cannot normally attempt to Hide again.The rules are not stupid, they're just a reflection of common sense.Hiding means that the enemy doesn't know where you are. They are not aware of your presence with sufficient precision. Obviously if they watch you go into your hiding spot, the enemy (generally) know exactly where you are, and you are not hidden.Again. You and I are in a room with a box. Our friend Steve is waiting outside (he doesnt know who is in the room). I crawl into the box and close the lid and take the hide action, rolling my steath check. You then go and open the door to let Steve in the room.I am hidden from Steve (assuming I beat his passive perception to avoid making any noise in the box) once he enters the room. He has no idea I am in there. I am not hidden from you however - you know exactly where I am.I am discovered by Steve (and no longer hidden) if any of the following things happen:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">You tell Steve where I am</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">My stealth check is lower than Steves passive perception (I accidentally cough or, a bit of my clothes are sticking out or whatever)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Steve starts searching for me (uses an action to makes an active perception check that beats vs my steath score)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Steve opens the box and finds me automatically.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I intentionally make a noise, or pop out of the box (although I get a free attack on Steve at advantage if I do so, and if I have Skulker and miss with my attack, I can pop back in before he notices me)</li> </ul>Yeah. And a Wood Elf (or someone with the Skulker feat) can literally hide in heavy rain in the middle of an empty football stadium. They would remain hidden once the stadium filled up with 10,000 spectators, and play began on the game. Players could walk right past them without noticing them. They could swing a sword at those players over and over and over again, and (unless they hit the player revealing themselves) no-one in that stadium would know they were there (unless someone actively searched for them, and beat thier stealth check with an active perception check, or one of the people present had a really high passive perception score and pointed you out to everyone)That's pretty magical and fantastical.Take owndership of your game man, and explain to your players thats how it is. Every single rule that has ever been written is subject to subjective interpretation. RAW doesnt exist as a thing in and of itself. I dont want to get too postmodern on you, but thats the reality.Maybe we have different exceptions of our friends, but if I organised and then umpired a friendly game of cricket (or baseball), and ruled a mate of mine out LBW (or struck him out) and he whinged about it for over an hour afterwards, we probably wouldnt be friends for very long.</blockquote>

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