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<blockquote data-quote="DaveDash" data-source="post: 6619080" data-attributes="member: 6786202">If I applied common sense to every situation, then Wizards would not be able to cast fireballs from their fingertips. The whole point in class mechanics is that they defy logic and common sense.Besides that, the players argument is still valid. In the chaos of combat a monster may not even know where the arrow came from, let alone be able to focus on the Rogue firing it.He sure is hidden if the monsters is distracted by the huge raging Barbarian in it's face.But it is a rule, because the designers attempted at creating mechanics around it. It's not a plain English phrase.That's your interpretation of the rules. The Rogue player still has a valid argument that they are not watching, they're focused on the raging Barbarian with the huge battle axe. DM disagrees, argument ensures. In fact &quot;Watching&quot; the Rogue is covered in rules by them spending their action to find a hidden creature.Again, your interpretation of the rules, one I agree with, but one that can also be argued against. And there is no rule to fall back on, so it comes down to cops and robbers again.I have my own idea on how stealth works, and it's very similar to yours. You seem to be missing the point however that a vague rule like this causes arguments at the table.The designers either should have gone all-in and made a better rule set for stealth, or gone even more vague like my example in my edited post above.The ways the rules are written right now puts the expectation on the players that it still is a game mechanic, instead of something completely in the DM's hands.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DaveDash, post: 6619080, member: 6786202"] If I applied common sense to every situation, then Wizards would not be able to cast fireballs from their fingertips. The whole point in class mechanics is that they defy logic and common sense. Besides that, the players argument is still valid. In the chaos of combat a monster may not even know where the arrow came from, let alone be able to focus on the Rogue firing it. He sure is hidden if the monsters is distracted by the huge raging Barbarian in it's face. But it is a rule, because the designers attempted at creating mechanics around it. It's not a plain English phrase. That's your interpretation of the rules. The Rogue player still has a valid argument that they are not watching, they're focused on the raging Barbarian with the huge battle axe. DM disagrees, argument ensures. In fact "Watching" the Rogue is covered in rules by them spending their action to find a hidden creature. Again, your interpretation of the rules, one I agree with, but one that can also be argued against. And there is no rule to fall back on, so it comes down to cops and robbers again. I have my own idea on how stealth works, and it's very similar to yours. You seem to be missing the point however that a vague rule like this causes arguments at the table. The designers either should have gone all-in and made a better rule set for stealth, or gone even more vague like my example in my edited post above. The ways the rules are written right now puts the expectation on the players that it still is a game mechanic, instead of something completely in the DM's hands. [/QUOTE]

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