Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 6619139" data-attributes="member: 5834">Stealth has caused so many arguments and problems over the years that if I had a nickel for all the stealth threads I've seen for the last ten plus years, I'd be have at least a few thousands dollars. They tried to rewrite Stealth in Pathfinder. It did not work. Still caused confusion. Still had many corner cases where the DM is supposed to decide.I believe your player is right. The Cunning action Hide rule was made to give the Rogue the ability to Hide every round and gain advantage on at least one attack. Sneak Attack was built with that in mind occurring only once per turn. They made it extremely easy for the rogue to use his Sneak Attack every round. I think they made it extremely easy for the Rogue to gain advantage on that single Sneak Attack every round on purpose. The rules are quite clear that for one attack every round the rogue is set up to gain advantage on that attack and gain a sneak attack. They made sure that a multi-attacker could not. This is all intentional.They also incorporated a discussion of sensible rules for cover. This makes the rogue have to work at least a little bit at it. The example I used with the Halfing is he can't keep hiding behind the same person over and over again. The DM can easily rule that the opponent can watch that location quite easily, so the Halfling doesn't get to play hide and seek behind fighter in the same place the entire combat. If the Halfing is moving behind other party members during the fight, I have no problem with him getting advantage nearly every round. The game is built for him to do that.Think about the way they wrote the rules including the rogue:pg. 176 PHB Hiding1. Stealth requires cover. Something to hide behind. Sensible. So you can't use Hide in melee, you have to use it with a ranged weapon or have the person come past your cover area. Soon as you break cover, the DM can rule that you are spotted, especially if you're hiding in the same area turn after turn. This requires the rogue to stay moving around the combat. The DM can also rule that if you stay out of the sight line of a target, you can sneak up on them such as during a sentry removal attack when the sentries are looking the other way.2. Some options allow you to hide in Lightly obscured areas or behind other characters. Lightly obscured doesn't change that you must not be seen. Lightly Obscured only provides disadvantage on perception checks, it does not remove if they see you, you are not hidden rule. It's for those times when the DM can rule that there are sufficient light cover of bushes, mist, or forest shadows for you to hide without being directly perceived. It's another one of those situations the DM must rule on when it comes to environmental circumstances. pg. 195 PHB3. If you are hidden-both unseen and unheard-when you make an attack, you give away your location when the attack hits or misses. Target now knows your location. Unless you're invisible, if you pop out of cover again or continue to be out of cover he knows where you are. No advantage on attack rolls. This happens with the very first attack. I read the rules and I let the rogue get his one advantage attack a round with fairly minimal work. I don't allow him to be lazy and hide in one place over and over again or hide behind the same person over and over again. I don't allow him to pop out in melee and get the Hide advantage. The guy he's attacking is looking out for him and he won't be able to close the distance without being seen because of how paranoid the target he is attacking is.If he's using ranged attacks and doing work to move around the battlefield hiding behind enemy and friend (in the case of a Halfling ) in big battles or hiding in different areas that I can reasonably believe the target might not be aware of, I let him hide every round. I think that was the intent of the rules. It's all quite clear. I think DMs and players make it unclear by making assumptions on their personal feelings rather than reading the rules text. If the DM and some players doing in saying "The rogue shouldn't be able to hide and gain advantage every round", they would be incorrect. The rogue very much was built to get Advantage from hiding every round if the environment permits. The entire reason I posted a while back saying if you are fighting a rogue in the forest find a rock and make your tombstone is because I believe they are built to be able to Hide Kite someone in an area where they can find near constant cover. You have nearly no chance of seeing them due to Expertise. When I read the rogue, it seemed very clear they were able to Hide nearly every round and gain advantage and Sneak Attack other than in direct melee.</blockquote>

Verification