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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 9214914" data-attributes="member: 6801252">Yeah to be clear, there's a subjectivity there that I think naturally divides playerbases, and I don't think it's escapable-- its why I have a player who definetly likes PF2e enough to not mind playing it (and they're excited for Starfinder 2e), but then did simultaneously enjoy the freeform nature of combat in Masks while disliking essentially everything about how the game constructs character identity, playbook narrative, and interparty drama-- but also I can now report is really enjoying Vampire the Requiem, and reports that they find it less pushy and still a bit more freeform than our d20 stuff despite the presence of the humanity stat and the conditions. But I guess that's ok because different games should exist? The wedge is just what parts of a character concept need to be non-negotiable. Whether the rules should give way in your example probably depends more on the group, it doesn't in our games because some of us generally like the system's take enough to outweigh how the player would prefer for it to be handled, but there's def some work happening there where like, the player doesn't like the way character death can happen (they are firmly 'combat as spectacle' oriented) but we cover some of that distance by maximizing the accessibility of resurrection options, and player undead options-- if that player's character dies right now in our west marches, they have a latent vampire archetype inside of them waiting to let them get back up, and other characters interested in resurrecting them, as well as a few different approaches for possibly doing so. I would probably say the group wants to set their desires for what the game will and won't interface with before picking the system, rather than creating characters, with the understanding of what's going to be important to them when they do. Part of taking up Vampire was actually a big survey with all the Chronicles of Darkness games, and then choices between the many gamelines, and crossover vouchers so they could potentially go in a different direction from the majority-- one of the players doesn't like the 'essentially two-faced' nature of Masks and Dirges, and doesn't like humanity, so they ended up picking a splat that has something they prefer to that with a crossover voucher.</blockquote>

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