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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Glass spider" data-source="post: 1047941" data-attributes="member: 13453">Wherever i look, i see arguments as to class and prc balance.Whether class x is better than a similar class y.Is prc z overpowered and broken etc.So i was thinking of making a system to check power and thus fix it if needed.I'd like all of you nice people out there to help me make it.Well,the system will be a point based one.The class gets points for a relevant class feature or ability etc.For example,one good save amounts to 1 pt(not fixed yet,just an example) two equals 2 pts and 3 amounts to 3pts.For spellcasting classes, spell advancement each level is 2pts and that at alternate levels is 1 pt.And so on for each ability and class feature.In the end,points are totalled and if the points exceed that of a predetermined balanced and similar hallmark class(es) it is overpowered and underpowered if otherwise.First of all,we need hallmark classes.suggestions?Also comment on how points should be distributed,like 1pt to +1bab for example.This will be separate for related groups of classesWe will continue the system after decisions on the above!Here is a example demonstration of the system at work.We compare the wizard and sorceror using this system.Remember this is all my opinion . I welcome all suggestions.And don't forget this is work in progress so forgive any mistakes.Sorry if it doesn't look aesthetic.What i had neat and colour coded in wordpad looks like this when pasted into the messageSORCERERADVANTAGES (Are generally worth positive point adjustments) :                 1] Spontaneous casting - +1 point                 2] More spells/day - See SYNERGY belowDISADVANTAGES (Are generally worth negative point adjustments): 1]Lack of skills keyed to core requisite ability CHA.Also see wizard                       2]Limited spell selection,Delayed spell level advancement,Full round metamagic - See SYNERGY below                       3]Delayed prestige class qualification (for many relevant prc's)SYNERGY(means any interaction between negative and positive point modifiers):The extra spells per day probably is balanced out with limited spell selection,delayed spell-level advancement and full round metamagic.So probably not worth any point adjustment over that of wizardClass SkillsThe sorcerer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)- 6 skills,nothing useful for her core ability CHA.Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.20 spell levels =+ 20 pts,1pt for each spell level (i.e levels in which spellcasting is advanced)Class FeaturesFamiliar:Worth a +1 pt adjustment(doesn't matter in this comparison)Weapon and Armor Proficiency:simple weapons - inconsequential in this comparison The Sorcerer. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.(Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on  Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.)TOTAL=22pts at 20th lvl for the sake of this comparisonWIZARDADVANTAGES: 1] Skill bonuses (see below) - see skills entry below                       2]Scribe scroll and bonus feats (Advantage over sorceror)-see entry belowDISADVANTAGES: 1]Spell learning and spellbook maintenance (not as effortless and cheap as sorceror) worth a -1 pt adjustmentClass SkillsThe wizard’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int). 6 skills,4 keyed to the core ability INT.Also see belowSkill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.As key ability is INT this becomes almost guaranteedly 4sp's/lvl.Coupled with the above most probably worth a +1pt adjustmentSPELLS PER DAY:Generally 2/3 that of the sorceror, but see the sorceror entry.Could be considered standard20 spell levels=+20 pts,1 pt per spell level (i.e levels in which spellcasting is advanced)Class FeaturesFamiliar:Worth a +1 pt adjustment (Inconsequential in this comparison)Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Wizards are proficient with the club, dagger, heavy crossbow, light crossbow, and quarterstaff. inconsequential in this comparisonSpells: In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Intelligence score.Scribe Scroll: At 1st level, a wizard gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat.-+1 ptBonus Feats: At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th level, a wizard gains a bonus feat. she can choose a metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery. +1pt per featSpellbooks: A wizard must study her spellbook each day to prepare her spells. She cannot prepare any spell not recorded in her spellbook, A wizard must choose and prepare her spells ahead of time SCHOOL SPECIALIZATIONA specialist wizard can prepare one additional spell of her specialty school per spell level each day. She also gains a +2 bonus on Spellcraft checks to learn the spells of her chosen school - +1? if a relevant optionTOTAL=26pts at 20th lvl for the sake of this comparisonCONCLUSION :1] WIZARD LVL 20 = 27 pts,maybe -1 for all that spellbook and spell learning tedium .Still 26 pts                            SORCEROR LVL 20 = 22 pts                       2]WIZARD LVL 10 = 14 pts [10 spell lvls+1 familiar+1 scribe scroll+ 2 two bonus feats +1 skill bonuses -1 spellbook maintenance]                           SORCEROR LVL 10 = 12 pts [10 spell levels+1 familiar+1 spontaneous casting]                            3]WIZARD LVL 1 = 4 pts [1 spell level+1 familiar+1 scribe scroll+1 skill bonuses]                               SORCEROR LVL 1=4pts[1 spell level+1 familiar+1 more spells(mostly only matters at this point)+1 spontaneous casting]So in the beginning,both classes are rather balanced.At higher levels the emergence of metamagic feats,lack of skills and spell versatility downgrades the sorceror more and more below the wizard.The wizard has more skills, spell versatility,bonus feats which are useful over the sorceror which his more spells per day and spontaneous casting does not fully compensate for as revealed in the above comparison</blockquote>

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