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<blockquote data-quote="GlassJaw" data-source="post: 1846388" data-attributes="member: 22103">This thread has gone a few different ways but I just wanted to post a couple more comments.I really like the d20/3ed system.&nbsp; As others have said, it's what brought me back to D&amp;D.&nbsp; I love the fact that the rules make sense and don't really require any house rules.&nbsp; You can play right out of the book.&nbsp; Some call it too wargame-ish but I like the fact that there is no grey in the rules.After playing it since it came out, however, there are 2 main areas that I don't like:1.&nbsp; Too much crunch.&nbsp; This was one of the problems with 2ed as well.&nbsp; Everything now is more, more, more: more PrC's, more feats, more spells, etc.&nbsp; I believe 3ed as it stands now is on overload.&nbsp; I know the simple answer is &quot;don't use what you don't like&quot; but the problem is with all the influx of material, it's very difficult to find a group where everyone is on the same page.&nbsp; If someone has a new shiny book, they want to use it.&nbsp; If you want to run a game that's more streamlined, you run the risk of making the players unhappy.2.&nbsp; High-level play.&nbsp; High-level play in a &quot;standard&quot; 3ed campaign is brutal.&nbsp; After 12th level so, the system becomes a dinosaur.&nbsp; The system just has too many options: spells, magic items, special abilties, etc.&nbsp; You can spend a whole session just planning and buffing up for a battle.&nbsp; Then once you start the battle, that takes a whole session too!&nbsp; Again, some people will debate this but I've been in a slew of groups since 3ed came out and I've never seen this probelm remedied.&nbsp; As someone else mentioned, it's also a nightmare for a DM to run party vs party battles too.&nbsp; You always end up forgetting something along the way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="GlassJaw, post: 1846388, member: 22103"] This thread has gone a few different ways but I just wanted to post a couple more comments. I really like the d20/3ed system. As others have said, it's what brought me back to D&D. I love the fact that the rules make sense and don't really require any house rules. You [I]can[/I] play right out of the book. Some call it too wargame-ish but I like the fact that there is no grey in the rules. After playing it since it came out, however, there are 2 main areas that I don't like: 1. Too much crunch. This was one of the problems with 2ed as well. Everything now is more, more, more: more PrC's, more feats, more spells, etc. I believe 3ed as it stands now is on overload. I know the simple answer is "don't use what you don't like" but the problem is with all the influx of material, it's very difficult to find a group where everyone is on the same page. If someone has a new shiny book, they want to use it. If you want to run a game that's more streamlined, you run the risk of making the players unhappy. 2. High-level play. High-level play in a "standard" 3ed campaign is brutal. After 12th level so, the system becomes a dinosaur. The system just has too many options: spells, magic items, special abilties, etc. You can spend a whole session just planning and buffing up for a battle. Then once you start the battle, [I]that[/I] takes a whole session too! Again, some people will debate this but I've been in a slew of groups since 3ed came out and I've never seen this probelm remedied. As someone else mentioned, it's also a nightmare for a DM to run party vs party battles too. You [I]always[/I] end up forgetting something along the way. [/QUOTE]

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