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<blockquote data-quote="ggroy" data-source="post: 4957636" data-attributes="member: 83805">I wouldn't be surprised if this is one big factor in keeping the 4E 3pp market relatively small, especially with respect to print products in FLGS and bookstores.This time around there is also the mature pdf and print-on-demand markets, which didn't seem to be as prevalent back in 2000-2001.&nbsp; I suppose back in 2000-2002, the one obvious route to sell one's products would be to have printed books in FLGS and bookstores.&nbsp; Today it's probably easier for a smaller 3pp company to sell its titles at pdf retailers (like drivethrurpg), than to print up books and convince skeptical distributors and retailers to stock it.&nbsp; I suspect part of the relatively underwhelming market for 4E and Pathfinder 3PP titles so far, is that a lot of stuff never shows up in print and is only available as pdfs or print-on-demand.&nbsp; In the eyes of less hardcore gamers, sight unseen (at FLGS and/or bookstores) becomes almost synonymous with &quot;it does not exist&quot;.Besides the hardcore gamers who keep up with the pdf/pod markets, less hardcore gamers don't seem to be aware of nor even that interested in rpg titles sold through the pdf/pod market.&nbsp; Of the gamers I know locally, it's mainly some of the hardcore gamers who are avid purchasers of pdf or print-on-demand rpg titles.&nbsp; Hardly anybody else is interested in pdf rpg titles.&nbsp; (Free pdfs do not even interest many less hardcore gamers I know).Perhaps this time around the pdf/pod market has created sort of a &quot;ghetto&quot; where smaller 3pp publishers have gravitated to, instead of the traditional print/distributor/FLGS channel.&nbsp; Some of the better selling 3pp titles may end up in print, such as the &quot;Tome of Secrets&quot; book for Pathfinder.&nbsp; (I saw &quot;Tome of Secrets&quot; at a local FLGS today).&nbsp; On the other hand, a title which sells 100 pdf copies or less, is probably not worth the trouble of printing up and dealing with the headaches of convincing distributors and FLGS to carry it.Whatever &quot;3PP bubble&quot; there was for 4E, it's probably been more or less deflated or popped by now.There doesn't appear to be a 3PP &quot;bubble&quot; for Pathfinder so far.&nbsp; (Though it may be still too early to tell).&nbsp; With a purported significantly smaller market size for Pathfinder (compared to 4E D&amp;D), I doubt a Pathfinder &quot;3pp bubble&quot; of any significant size will occur.&nbsp; Who knows?&nbsp; Maybe &quot;Tome of Secrets&quot; was the peak of the &quot;Pathfinder 3pp bubble&quot;?&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="ggroy, post: 4957636, member: 83805"] I wouldn't be surprised if this is one big factor in keeping the 4E 3pp market relatively small, especially with respect to print products in FLGS and bookstores. This time around there is also the mature pdf and print-on-demand markets, which didn't seem to be as prevalent back in 2000-2001. I suppose back in 2000-2002, the one obvious route to sell one's products would be to have printed books in FLGS and bookstores. Today it's probably easier for a smaller 3pp company to sell its titles at pdf retailers (like drivethrurpg), than to print up books and convince skeptical distributors and retailers to stock it. I suspect part of the relatively underwhelming market for 4E and Pathfinder 3PP titles so far, is that a lot of stuff never shows up in print and is only available as pdfs or print-on-demand. In the eyes of less hardcore gamers, sight unseen (at FLGS and/or bookstores) becomes almost synonymous with "it does not exist". Besides the hardcore gamers who keep up with the pdf/pod markets, less hardcore gamers don't seem to be aware of nor even that interested in rpg titles sold through the pdf/pod market. Of the gamers I know locally, it's mainly some of the hardcore gamers who are avid purchasers of pdf or print-on-demand rpg titles. Hardly anybody else is interested in pdf rpg titles. (Free pdfs do not even interest many less hardcore gamers I know). Perhaps this time around the pdf/pod market has created sort of a "ghetto" where smaller 3pp publishers have gravitated to, instead of the traditional print/distributor/FLGS channel. Some of the better selling 3pp titles may end up in print, such as the "Tome of Secrets" book for Pathfinder. (I saw "Tome of Secrets" at a local FLGS today). On the other hand, a title which sells 100 pdf copies or less, is probably not worth the trouble of printing up and dealing with the headaches of convincing distributors and FLGS to carry it. Whatever "3PP bubble" there was for 4E, it's probably been more or less deflated or popped by now. There doesn't appear to be a 3PP "bubble" for Pathfinder so far. (Though it may be still too early to tell). With a purported significantly smaller market size for Pathfinder (compared to 4E D&D), I doubt a Pathfinder "3pp bubble" of any significant size will occur. Who knows? Maybe "Tome of Secrets" was the peak of the "Pathfinder 3pp bubble"? :) [/QUOTE]

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