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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 7183995" data-attributes="member: 6677017">It's even worse than that. Wizards also get ritual casting, which can effectively increase their "known" spells on any particular day, often by a lot. And their spell list is a lot bigger than the sorcerers, and includes things the sorcerer probably should have.My opinion is as follows:1) I used to wonder if Champion was good enough compared to other fighter archetypes. I examined it fairly thoroughly and decided it is. Sure, it's a bit weaker, but it's within my tolerable range. I can make Champions that I am satisfied with and feel fine playing alongside other fighters.2) My initial thoughts on Sorcerer was that they weren't good enough. I did a lot of examination and convinced myself I was wrong, and they were within tolerable range. Then I tried to make a perfectly reasonable concept (black dragon sorcerer), and found that I couldn't make one I was satisfied with. I've examined it more and decided that it is definitely not within my tolerable range.In my opinion they need three things: more spells known, a larger selection of spells to choose from, and more "oomph", probably through messing with the metamagic or sorcery point mechanics. They don't need a lot of any of these things, but they would really benefit from a little of all of them.</blockquote>