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<blockquote data-quote="S'mon" data-source="post: 5796672" data-attributes="member: 463"><p>I think it really all comes down to player psychology. Some will insist on "I must nova NOW, or we will all die!" - and their response to a risk of random encounters is to always retreat to a safe place, or turtle.</p><p></p><p>Really, I think the 15MAD speaks to a fundamental design imbalance in 3e/PF. I never saw it in 1e, which also had limited-magic casters. Partly it may be that 3e/PF casters are more powerful, but I think it's much more to do with monster/encounter lethality. Every 3e encounter is seen as potentially lethal, everyone wants to go all-out all-the-time. 1e worked that way at 1st level, where short, tense delves were typical IME, but as 1e PCs levelled up they could take on more and more encounters in a row, which balanced with the Magic-Users' increasing power. <em><u>**Encounter Lethality reduced as PCs levelled up**</u></em>. By contrast in in 3e/PF the expectation is that encounter lethality <u>stays the same</u> as at 1st level - so PCs behave the way they did at 1st level. THAT is what leads to the 15MAD.</p><p></p><p>The solution: As PC increase in power, the power of the opposition should not scale commensurately. That whole design paradigm is wrong - it doesn't work with Vancian casting. A 5th level party should face *more* encounters than a 1st level party, not vastly more lethal encounters. This also allows for a much wider range of levels in the adventuring party.</p><p></p><p>The more I think about it, the more I think this is the problem. By basing the encounter default on a single CR=PL monster that could threaten the entire party, 3e created a cascade of problems with the 1e-2e play balance. Change that, and the 15MAD should disappear.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="S'mon, post: 5796672, member: 463"] I think it really all comes down to player psychology. Some will insist on "I must nova NOW, or we will all die!" - and their response to a risk of random encounters is to always retreat to a safe place, or turtle. Really, I think the 15MAD speaks to a fundamental design imbalance in 3e/PF. I never saw it in 1e, which also had limited-magic casters. Partly it may be that 3e/PF casters are more powerful, but I think it's much more to do with monster/encounter lethality. Every 3e encounter is seen as potentially lethal, everyone wants to go all-out all-the-time. 1e worked that way at 1st level, where short, tense delves were typical IME, but as 1e PCs levelled up they could take on more and more encounters in a row, which balanced with the Magic-Users' increasing power. [I][U]**Encounter Lethality reduced as PCs levelled up**[/U][/I]. By contrast in in 3e/PF the expectation is that encounter lethality [U]stays the same[/U] as at 1st level - so PCs behave the way they did at 1st level. THAT is what leads to the 15MAD. The solution: As PC increase in power, the power of the opposition should not scale commensurately. That whole design paradigm is wrong - it doesn't work with Vancian casting. A 5th level party should face *more* encounters than a 1st level party, not vastly more lethal encounters. This also allows for a much wider range of levels in the adventuring party. The more I think about it, the more I think this is the problem. By basing the encounter default on a single CR=PL monster that could threaten the entire party, 3e created a cascade of problems with the 1e-2e play balance. Change that, and the 15MAD should disappear. [/QUOTE]
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