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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mercule" data-source="post: 3880367" data-attributes="member: 5100">I agree with better conceptual realization being a good thing.  On the other hand, I do not see the class/level setup of D&D to be a bad thing.  It's a mechanic that facilitates ease of play and is one of the reasons D&D is still going strong.Which isn't to say, I haven't gotten frustrated with D&D and considered moving to Hero to get better customization.  It's a trade-off.Or, you find it frustrating to have to shell out scads of cash and then try to track the various rules through different books.  I'll guarantee that I have over 5,000 pages of rules available in my game and the real number is probably closer to 7,500 pages.  Almost every feat, magic item, class ability, or spell does its bit by exception -- it breaks a rule or creates a new rule.  Even though I'm in the habit of grabbing a game book and reviewing rules I know (newly purchased books get dedicated time for reading) anytime I have a few minutes to kill, it can still take me an hour to find the exact passage I'm looking for.  I was just trying to find the feat that would allow a non-monk to scale unarmed damage and was sure it was in PHB2.  It never crossed my mind to check Bo9S until I happened upon it by chance... a week later.By contrast, the Hero system book on my shelf is 400 pages, plus the 300 page Fantasy Hero supplement.  With those, I can recreate anything in all of my D&D books, plus some.  I can also be more sure of two builds being roughly balanced at a given XP total.Why play D&D then?  Because, at its basic level, the infrastructure is built for me.  Classes, levels, and races are small package deals that someone has built.  Races, especially, are something I'd have to define.  I'd have to define the rough magic system, too, and maybe some spells.  Sure, in Hero, I could build as many little packages as D&D has and fill tomes with them, but I don't have to.  If someone wants to focus on archery, they (or I) can do the math at the time.  Ditto for an oddball ability (PrC) combo.  To get the same breadth and flexibility for D&D, I needed thousands of pages.With 3.5, you have two options: limit flexibility by reducing which books are available or drown in supplements.  Even more aggravating is the fact that there are huge chunks of most of my books that go unused, but that I still have to transport and sift through in order to find the bits that I care about.I also have a couple of interested and good, but casual, players in my group.  They aren't really interested in looking through the PHB for the perfect feat, though they'll browse the tables and ask questions.  The few times I've pulled out all my books and offered to review character options with the group, these players' eyes have glazed over and they've tuned out.  I'm happy to help them out, but I don't have the time to spend five hours researching PC toys every time the group levels up.I'm sure 4E will still generally manage by exception.  I just hope that there is enough flexibility to justify the overhead.  3.5 hit the point of diminishing (or non-existent) returns a long while back.  Any time claims of flexibility rely on having access to what is, essentially, a set (or two) of encyclopedias, the functional relevance of that claim is a bit suspect.</blockquote>

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