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<blockquote data-quote="Lord Pendragon" data-source="post: 1884433" data-attributes="member: 707">Me too.&nbsp; I want to know that my PC's actions have consequences, good and bad.&nbsp; Being saved by the DM when things go wrong is just as bad as being shut down by a DM even though you have the [appropriate for the situation] skill at +30.&nbsp; In either case, your PC's actions and abilities are being artificially circumvented by the DM.I have no problem with a very difficult encounter.&nbsp; It definitely creates suspense and drama, both of which are good things.&nbsp; The most recent game I played in was a killer.&nbsp; Two NPCs, one PC, and an animal companion bit it over the course of three successive tough encounters.&nbsp; I loved the session.&nbsp; But even though the encounters were tough, they were not unbeatable, which is what I'm arguing is bad.I understand your thinking, and agree with it in part.&nbsp; There is often a change in player attitudes, when the line between &quot;there may be death&quot; and &quot;there won't be death&quot; is crossed.&nbsp; But again I'm not arguing for &quot;there won't be death.&quot;&nbsp; I'm arguing that &quot;there may be death&quot; does not, and should not, include encounters that are completely out of the PC's defeatable range.To throw out an exaggerated example, say a group of 1st-level PCs are traveling through the forest and encounter an adult green dragon.&nbsp; Is this a good encounter?&nbsp; The DM might say &quot;sure it is, the PCs can negotiate with it, and it'll let them live if they give it all their stuff,&quot; or something along those lines.&nbsp; Personally, I don't think it's a good encounter at all.&nbsp; It's placing a creature the PCs have no hope of defeating squarely in their path.If the PCs decide to go exploring the &quot;Cave of the Adult Green Dragon&quot; then sure, they get what's coming to them.&nbsp; But setting up impossible encounters the PCs must confront doesn't make for a good game.At least, IMO.&nbsp; YMMV, of course, and from the posts here clearly does. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />If your party could have defeated the medusas, then the encounter isn't &quot;unbeatable&quot; as I'm defining it, even if it could cost a PC death or two.Which is great.&nbsp; Very similar to the game I currently play in.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Lord Pendragon, post: 1884433, member: 707"] Me too. I want to know that my PC's actions have consequences, good [i]and[/i] bad. Being saved by the DM when things go wrong is just as bad as being shut down by a DM even though you have the [appropriate for the situation] skill at +30. In either case, your PC's actions and abilities are being artificially circumvented by the DM.I have no problem with a very difficult encounter. It definitely creates suspense and drama, both of which are good things. The most recent game I played in was a killer. Two NPCs, one PC, and an animal companion bit it over the course of three successive tough encounters. I loved the session. But even though the encounters were [i]tough[/i], they were not [i]unbeatable[/i], which is what I'm arguing is bad.I understand your thinking, and agree with it in part. There is often a change in player attitudes, when the line between "there may be death" and "there won't be death" is crossed. But again I'm not arguing for "there won't be death." I'm arguing that "there may be death" does not, and should not, include encounters that are completely out of the PC's defeatable range. To throw out an exaggerated example, say a group of 1st-level PCs are traveling through the forest and encounter an adult green dragon. Is this a good encounter? The DM might say "sure it is, the PCs can negotiate with it, and it'll let them live if they give it all their stuff," or something along those lines. Personally, I don't think it's a good encounter at all. It's placing a creature the PCs have no hope of defeating squarely in their path. If the PCs decide to go exploring the "Cave of the Adult Green Dragon" then sure, they get what's coming to them. But setting up impossible encounters the PCs must confront doesn't make for a good game. At least, IMO. YMMV, of course, and from the posts here clearly does. ;)If your party could have defeated the medusas, then the encounter isn't "unbeatable" as I'm defining it, even if it could cost a PC death or two.Which is great. Very similar to the game I currently play in. [/QUOTE]

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