Thoughts about the Magic System and a Few Other Things

[Tashtego]

I read through the magic system in OLD. I first I thought it was a freeform magic system, a bit like Mage or Ars Magica, but it's really more a spell construction system. I did find some parts a bit unclear and would suggest some more examples in future drafts.

Here are some thoughts I had from reading through the magic system.

What is a 'spell list' exactly? 'Evoke fire' or 'Evoke'? It's not a clear a term.

Advancement refers to a psionic power level. How much XP to actually learn a spell? When you learn a spell, do you learn the 'verb' + 'noun' combo as a 'spell list' or just a 'noun' or a 'verb'? If I learn 'Evoke fire' can I do everything involving 'evoke fire' and buff or modify my spell accordingly?

Are you worried about the action economy with only one hour to restore full MP? I remember D&D designers stressing out about the adventuring action economy based on the speed of regaining spells.

Why write the spell at Evoke Lightning 0/Gen 1? It doesn't actually tell you what the spell does, especially if there are lots of enhancement costs bundled into the Gen list.

I didn't think 'Illusion' was a good verb name. Mind you, it is rather clear.

So you can cast a spell without a complete list? I'm still confused by this spell list term. To me, 'evoke fire' isn't a spell list.

P116 refers to 'gaining a level'? I don't get what 'level' means in the context of what I've read about the spell system so far.

I would have liked Divine and Scry to be linked to elements/creatures rather than just being generic, open-ended lists. (Unless you're supposed to piggyback them onto another spell list?) For example, to me, Divine Metal (allowing you to learn about a sword's history) is cooler than the current Divine List. And you could have interesting combinations with Divine Time/Divine Space.

With the Create stuff list, should there be a table for volumes of matter?

Can you heal an element? Like Heal Stone to repair a stone wall?

It seems you need to read all of the fiddly stuff to build a spell, rather than using the system as a freeform magic system. Is that actually the case?

Some other random thoughts:

Is it possible to have the measurements in metric, or in a generic unit like 'squares'?

Do you have a transcript of your rpg.net chat?

It would be brilliant if you could get full Hero Lab support for the systems, especially for all of your spaceship/stronghold design sub-systems.

Anyway, I've been enjoying the drafts so far! I look forward to seeing how the system develops.

 

[Morrus]

Just a quick reply (I'm not at home right now) which covers a few of those comments -- yep, a spell list is something like "evoke fire". For example, you might know of an old man in the woods who is known for his ability to control animals (compel animal). You then enhance that by picking enhancements. There's some 250-ish possible spell lists, each of which has a wide range of application based on what enhancements you purchase.

Are you worried about the action economy with only one hour to restore full MP? I remember D&D designers stressing out about the adventuring action economy based on the speed of regaining spells.

Of course! That's why we're playtesting this baby!

But it's an hour once per day; a night's rest is required in between.

P116 refers to 'gaining a level'? I don't get what 'level' means in the context of what I've read about the spell system so far.

Thanks for spotting that. That should be "gain a new tradition grade".

It seems you need to read all of the fiddly stuff to build a spell, rather than using the system as a freeform magic system. Is that actually the case?

I'm not sure I understand the question - could you clarify? Thanks!

Oh, there is some info relating to the RPGnet chat and HeroLab in the latest Kickstarter update (just went out!)
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[Tashtego]

I'm not sure I understand the question - could you clarify? Thanks!
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In systems like Mage or Ars Magica, you can have points in the spell building blocks - e.g. 'Forces 3, Correspondence 3' for Mage to do something like a teleporting fireball. In Ars Magica I think it's vaguely like you buy 'Create' and 'Fire' or 'Water' with a bunch of points, and you can do things with those building blocks. A bunch of high level tables apply the building blocks, referring to volumes, targets and so forth. Technically, you could run the magic system in a freeform style, by just looking at the tables and casting the spell each time.

However, with the OLD system, it looks like each spell list has a bunch of different low-level enhancements with it and different rules. So I couldn't decide to do a 'Divine Metal' spell, because the Divine spell list breaks the Verb + Noun system you originally set up. It looks like the way to use the system is to build each spell individually, so it looks like a D&D style spell construction system. I don't know how you would adjust each spell parameters slightly (e.g. changing targets and distance) if you buy the spell as a fully-created D&D spell.

I didn't find it clear in places, and would appreciate more detailed explanations in future drafts. However, I do like the flexibility of the Noun + Verb system and think my players would enjoy it.​

 

[Morrus]

Yeah, it's pretty much like that - a couple of them a work differently (divine, spell craft, Counterspelling) but the rest are all roughly along the lines of that - with the caveat that this isn't either of those two games, and there's no intention to copy either of them! A signature spell takes a round to cast and is completely predefined, while creating and casting one on the fly takes longer.