Thoughts: Core class + Prestige Class as a Gestalt from level 1

[Herobizkit]

Hey all,
I was reminescing over the old kit books from 2nd ed., and it got me to thinking... aren't Prestige Classes a lot like kits?

And then I got to thinking, well, wouldn't it be great if level 1 Joe Fighter could be an Exotic Weapon Master *now* instead of waiting for 6 levels?

And THEN I got to thinking, almost every DM would never consider this because it would be "too powerful" and "unbalancing", to which I thumb my nose and say "Feh!"

So how about it? Would anyone consider doing this in their campaign worlds (besides me?)

 

[Cabral]

Sure, but not as a core + prestige gestalt character from level 1... If someone really wanted to be a prestige class from level 1, I'd make the prestige class into a core class.

 

[Darren Ravenshaw]

Sure, but not as a core + prestige gestalt character from level 1... If someone really wanted to be a prestige class from level 1, I'd make the prestige class into a core class.

I agree with Cabral, if you want to a character to be a member of X prestige class at level 1(or what ever level, just without as many reqs.) make it a basic class. I made the Devoted Defender and the Runecaster classes into basic classes because I like the feel of the classes. I just didn't like having to take levels in other classes and waiting till 6th level to have the games mechanics match my characters concept and personality that I've had since 1st level.

 

[Herobizkit]

For the two who responded thus far:

Did you extend the PrC's in your examples to 20 levels, or did you make your players retire at 10th level? Did/can they pick up a newer, wackier class to slap on top of their PrC?

 

[Cabral]

It hasn't come up so far. However, what I would do is stretch the Prestige Class out to a 20 level class. Compare the 15 level Prestige Paladin variant to the 20 level core class, as an example. (Btw, I've been considering replacing the Paladin core class with the Pious Templar prestige class ... no 1st level holy warriors; you have to be chosen first ...)

 

[Darren Ravenshaw]

I extended both to 20th level, which was fairly easy since they were 10 level classes to start with. Trying to create a 20 level progression from a 5 level class would be alot harder.
Also not all classes can be converted, like te Archmage should stay a Prestige class, since it is one of the few that is a Prestige class and not just an variation/hybrid of existing classes.

As for multi classing with them they are just like the core classes, add what ever other class you want.

 

[Thanee]

The biggest problem lies in the prerequisites... the classes are very differently balanced and some will simply not work without some prerequisites when the class is built upon their use.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Herobizkit]

Thanee,

I guess I just don't see the problems you believe there would be.

I mean, if you were to handwave prerequisites, you ignore:
a) BAB
b) Skills
c) required feats

BAB replaces the old level prerequisites (A warrior PrC requiring a BAB of +6 means the character must be at least level 6). Skills (most often) are there for flavour, and also replace level prerequsites (8 ranks in x guarantess you MUST be at least level 5)

Required feats are sketchy, because a lot of the PrC's expand on feats you should already have. But add in that Monk-based descriptor (... gains the Deflect Arrows feat, even if he does not have the requisite feats or dex score [or some such]) and voila.

But that's just me.

 

[Dog Moon]

I think you should keep the prereqs, but space them out a little.

So if you took the Blackguard PrC as Gestalt, we'll say you're putting that over twenty levels.

Requirment:
BA +6. Say at level 8 you need to have a BA of +6 [give a little leeway anyway] or else the character cannot continue in the PrC until he gets a BA of +6. If he waits 2 levels before that occurs, he basically loses out on those benefits.

Feats: Power Attack. By 3rd level, he needs to have taken Power Attack or he cannot advance in Blackguard.

Cleave: By 6th level, he needs to have taken Cleave or he cannot advance in the Blackguard.

Improved Sunder: By 12th level, if he has not taken Improved Sunder, he cannot advance in Blackguard.

Knowledge [Religion ; 2 ranks]: The character must put 2 ranks into Knowledge Religion at 1st level to be able to advance at all in Blackguard.

Hide [5 ranks]: By 3rd level, the character must have at least 5 ranks in Hide or he cannot advance in Blackguard.

Alignment [Evil]. The character must begin character creation as Evil or he cannot advance further in Blackguard. Should his alignment ever become not Evil, he can no longer advance in Blackguard.

Okay, so come to think of it this may not have been the BEST example because of the whole fallen paladin thing, but you get the idea. Instead of having the prereqs in the beginning, space them out a little.