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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JonnyP71" data-source="post: 6858466" data-attributes="member: 6788862">I guess it's more to do with the general approach of a player who seeks to eke out every little bonus possible and who considers that to be 'good play'. That type of player is more likely to be frustrated with our style of play than vice versa - though we would probably get frustrated if said player always spent ages on their turn in combat to try to get maximum effect.  We don't play on a grid - if the DM says the Burning Hands spell can hit 6 Kobolds no amount of moving a few feet in either direction will change that, just accept it and cast the damn spell!But we wouldn't be 'offended' by the player in question, and given that most of our group are computer professionals with various degrees, we also have the mathematical aptitude to optimise - if we wanted to. There's no expectation at the table to create sub-optimal PCs, but there is the expectation that the player will prioritise personality and backstory over pure numbers.The OP has talked about how he has been involved in optimising characters for other players.  That *would* offend our players.  If I wanted my Necromancer to do more damage I'd have picked Fireball with the Elemental Adept feat.  But no, I don't care about that, he's a geek who likes to mess with people's minds - so Keen Mind and Fear work far better from a flavour perspective.</blockquote>