NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jester David" data-source="post: 6858496" data-attributes="member: 37579">In a non-PvP FPS and to a lesser extent an MMO, the difference is less apparent in play, since you don't see the others numbers and things happen quicker. It's after the fact, when looking at the stats. You're still playing. You might still feel like you're contributing.Yes, a poor player can wipe a raid. But we're not talking about if just one person can't hack it. We're talking about the reverse, when one person is superiour. Very different situation when one guy is KSing the group. You mean anyone at the table is free to ask you to tell them how to play their character? Their choice is to surrender their choice. Why even play at that point? They can go grab a coffee while you run all the characters. Alternatively, you could ask their help in non-optimizing your character. Same thing right? Get their suggestions on powers that seem cool. Have the table vote on your powers when you level up. That's way more fair since it's democratic and everyone has a say. There's a balance in the game. I want everyone to have fun. That's my job. As the DM I am the fun enabler. However, I can't exclude myself from the equation. And I know that providing an adequate challenge is part of the fun. If I cannot provide a challenge, then I'm not having fun and I'm not providing everyone with the most fun they could be having, which is a twin failure.If it's my DMing skill that's unable to provide a balanced encounter, then I need to work harder. If it's the game system unable to provide a consistent challenge, I need to work around the system or change games. If it's the module that isn't written with my group in mind, then I need to change it. But if it's one character that cannot be adequately challenged without overly threatening the other players, then that's an issue with that player and that player alone. 5e minimizes power gaming, by reducing PC choices and increasing DM control. That seems like a big ol' win, since I can still play with the power gamer (aka a friend) but his ability to wreck my game is minimized, and the system is set-up to better enable me to work around him. I don't read comics, but I watch cartoons. They all have their strengths and areas they specialize, but in a fight they all contribute. You don't see one of the Avengers or Justice League sitting by the sideline during a fight. Oracle is a fun character to read in the comics, but she's not fun to play in a game. That's blaming the victim.' "If you didn't want to be left behind, you should have optimized!" That's mandating optimization, which just leads to power creep and the optimizer/DM arms race where both sides have to keep ramping things up to provide a challenge. Seriously, shift that sentence and argument around to apply to any other type of disruptive behaviour. Is that still a cool argument to make. "If 4/5 members of a group don't fudge dice rolls for combat, but still want to engage in it on a regular basis, don't berate the one guy who did.""If 4/5 members of a group don't metagame for combat, but still want to engage in it on a regular basis, don't berate the one guy who did.""If 4/5 members of a group don't memorize the Monster Manual for combat, but still want to engage in it on a regular basis, don't berate the one guy who did.""If 4/5 members of a group don't like off colour jokes during combat, but still want to engage in it on a regular basis, don't berate the one guy who does."Power gaming is JUST as disruptive. Potentially more so. But it's not *technically* cheating and some people find it fun, so it gets a free pass. It gets excused, if not encouraged. Nope. Don't buy that. Yes. I've seen that in play."I convince him to help me. I got a 31 on my Diplomacy check." Wheee. Will the nonstop rollercoaster of fun ever end? Then you need to play at a table with other people of your skill, or who want to learn to play at your skill level.D&D is a cooperative team game with a social contract. When playing board games with your parents, kids, and casual friends you don't get cutthroat and break out the advanced tactics. That's a HUGE dick move. Same damn thing. It's basic social niceties in a game setting to match the skill level of the people you're playing with. Yes, if everyone else at the table is an optimizer then you need to ask help, read forums, and step up your game. But if you're the best play you hold back, otherwise you're the jerk who just crushed grandma at RISK, shrugged, and said "Sorry Grangran, you suck. Don't pick Australia and play an offensive game."Strategic play =/= fun play. It's the best strategy for the BBEG to send just its elite minions to crush every threat, attacking at night during camps, and generally obeying the Evil Overlord list. Going after weaknesses sometimes is fun for a change of pace. Hitting Superman with Kryptonite in the occasional story is fun. But when ever story involves Kryptonite, and Superman no longer feels super since every villain is exploiting his weakness, things get less fun. If you have to constantly hit an optimized character in their weak area to remotely challenge them, then it gets boring for them since they don't feel awesome (and will usually find a way to strengthen that weakness) and it feels cheap as a DM.</blockquote>

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