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<blockquote data-quote="Sunseeker" data-source="post: 6858502">These are contradictory.&nbsp;&nbsp; [MENTION=59096]thecasualoblivion[/MENTION] Said he wants to be able to know what he can do, when he can do it and how he goes about doing it without having to ask for the DM's permission to do the things the rules enable him to do.&nbsp; Noone wants to play &quot;mother may I&quot;.&nbsp; I don't see how that doesn't qualify as &quot;being free to make decisions for your character as you see fit&quot;.&nbsp; My decision is that, in the middle of town, I'm going to attack the nobleman who's been a royal jerk to those kids.&nbsp; The rules say I have the ability to attack people.&nbsp; If there are in-game consequences for that, so be it.&nbsp; But I shouldn't have to ask the DM if I may attack him.&nbsp; What's to stop me besides the DM saying &quot;no&quot; for no reason whatsoever.&nbsp; That's not rules lawyering.If the DM is whimsically claiming I can't attack the noble when there in no in-game reason I couldn't that's the antithesis of player agency.&nbsp; That's the DM determining if you can or can not play you character in the manner they were designed based on the actions you choose for them.Rules lawyering is arguing over minutia and verbage of a rule, typically after the DM has made a ruling on how that rule works, in order to force the outcome that you want, which is usually counter to the outcome the DM has already ruled has happened.&nbsp; Properly enforcing the rules makes for good gameplay.&nbsp; It sets easily identifiable bounds as to what can and cannot happen, that's the whole point of rules!&nbsp; If the DM is not properly enforcing the rules when they should, or not reliably enforcing the rules, or just not enforcing them at all, then it's not rules lawyering to correct him.&nbsp; Unless the social contract with the DM was &quot;the DM is god&quot; or &quot;we're not worried about rules&quot;; then anyone should feel free to make sure rules are followed.&nbsp; Because if the rules aren't followed, the whole system comes crashing down in a heap.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sunseeker, post: 6858502"] These are contradictory. [MENTION=59096]thecasualoblivion[/MENTION] Said he wants to be able to know what he can do, when he can do it and how he goes about doing it without having to ask for the DM's permission to do the things the rules enable him to do. Noone wants to play "mother may I". I don't see how that doesn't qualify as "being free to make decisions for your character as you see fit". My decision is that, in the middle of town, I'm going to attack the nobleman who's been a royal jerk to those kids. The rules say I have the ability to attack people. If there are in-game consequences for that, so be it. But I shouldn't have to ask the DM if I [I]may[/I] attack him. What's to stop me besides the DM saying "no" for no reason whatsoever. That's not rules lawyering. If the DM is whimsically claiming I can't attack the noble when there in no in-game reason I couldn't that's the antithesis of player agency. That's the DM determining if you can or can not play you character in the manner they were designed based on the actions you choose for them. Rules lawyering is arguing over minutia and verbage of a rule, typically [I]after[/I] the DM has made a ruling on how that rule works, in order to force the outcome that you want, which is usually counter to the outcome the DM has already ruled has happened. Properly enforcing the rules makes for good gameplay. It sets easily identifiable bounds as to what can and cannot happen, that's the whole point of rules! If the DM is not properly enforcing the rules when they should, or not reliably enforcing the rules, or just not enforcing them at all, then it's [B]not[/B] rules lawyering to correct him. Unless the social contract with the DM was "the DM is god" or "we're not worried about rules"; then [I]anyone[/I] should feel free to make sure rules are followed. Because if the rules aren't followed, the whole system comes crashing down in a heap. [/QUOTE]

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