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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 6859327" data-attributes="member: 6777737"><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>And the problem with that is two-fold: 1) is discourages any resolution other than dice rolling, and 2) it can often be used with nonsensical results.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>In my experience, Skill Challenges were presented like this:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Here's a good one:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>This one is pretty good because there's tension between combat and unlocking the lock. It creates additional urgency and requires the players to work together.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Here's a bad one:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Note that the penalty here is, "nothing interesting happens, and the game cannot continue until a ton more dice rolling is done." This isn't <em>hard</em>. It's just <em>tedious</em>. It could have been one die roll to determine success or failure. This is making the PCs jump through hoops and holding the game hostage while you do it. It doesn't add to the game.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Here's a godawful one:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>This is <em>terrible</em>. Not only are you turning what should be a role-playing session into just more die rolls, it also means the penalty for failure is "bonus XP!" What happens is the same 3 players will roll the checks until they get enough successes. It doesn't get easier or harder. The NPCs actions don't ever change. Worse, the module presented <em>no options</em> for what they players should do if they can't pass this skill challenge, so even if you fail three times (as we did, since our social characters were absent that session) there's nothing stopping you from just trying it again a fourth time. Good thing, too, because the only way to get the map to $NextDungeonLocation was by completing the Skill Challenge. And yet somehow all the information we gathered the first three times doesn't help at all the fourth time?</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Note that these skill challenges are all from adventures from Dungeon magazine that I actually played. They might be a bit different, but not that much.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>"Oh, well clearly the authors of those modules didn't understand how to use Skill Challenges."</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Yes, but if professional module designers can't even use the rules correctly and professional editors don't catch these designer errors, isn't it kind of a sign that there's a problem with the rule? If module designers can't understand how to use a game mechanic, how can we expect DMs to understand? If players can't understand when to use a rule, what good is the rule?</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 6859327, member: 6777737"] [I] And the problem with that is two-fold: 1) is discourages any resolution other than dice rolling, and 2) it can often be used with nonsensical results. In my experience, Skill Challenges were presented like this: Here's a good one: This one is pretty good because there's tension between combat and unlocking the lock. It creates additional urgency and requires the players to work together. Here's a bad one: Note that the penalty here is, "nothing interesting happens, and the game cannot continue until a ton more dice rolling is done." This isn't [I]hard[/I]. It's just [I]tedious[/I]. It could have been one die roll to determine success or failure. This is making the PCs jump through hoops and holding the game hostage while you do it. It doesn't add to the game. Here's a godawful one: This is [I]terrible[/I]. Not only are you turning what should be a role-playing session into just more die rolls, it also means the penalty for failure is "bonus XP!" What happens is the same 3 players will roll the checks until they get enough successes. It doesn't get easier or harder. The NPCs actions don't ever change. Worse, the module presented [I]no options[/I] for what they players should do if they can't pass this skill challenge, so even if you fail three times (as we did, since our social characters were absent that session) there's nothing stopping you from just trying it again a fourth time. Good thing, too, because the only way to get the map to $NextDungeonLocation was by completing the Skill Challenge. And yet somehow all the information we gathered the first three times doesn't help at all the fourth time? Note that these skill challenges are all from adventures from Dungeon magazine that I actually played. They might be a bit different, but not that much. "Oh, well clearly the authors of those modules didn't understand how to use Skill Challenges." Yes, but if professional module designers can't even use the rules correctly and professional editors don't catch these designer errors, isn't it kind of a sign that there's a problem with the rule? If module designers can't understand how to use a game mechanic, how can we expect DMs to understand? If players can't understand when to use a rule, what good is the rule?[/i] [/QUOTE]
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