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<blockquote data-quote="happyhermit" data-source="post: 6860197" data-attributes="member: 6834463">Thanks for responding, that does make a kind of sense to me now. The last part is what has always made the difference seem rather insignificant from my perspective. I will agree that in general 4e by default tended to put a bit more of the mechanics in the players hands than 5e does (though a GM could always overrule).On a slightly tangential note, this might explain to me why one particular player seemed to really have a hard time with 5e, they have for years struggled with &quot;control issues&quot; as they put it. Somehow I never really quite put the two things together, it makes perfect sense that the difference would be magnified for them.5e does provide for some crazy levels of player control over the universe and/or story with the optional &quot;plot points&quot;, but I'm not sure that would scratch the same itch at all.I find that fascinating, especially since early editions often quite obviously rewarded one for avoiding combat or solving things differently (ie; gold as XP). We ran, oh boy did we run, often around the corner to where we had either a means of escape or some sort of &quot;traps&quot; waiting. All that mattered was the treasure in most dungeon crawls, and we got it!More difficult that 5e, which I was stating probably fit the definition of &quot;bigger tent&quot; a lot better than 3e. 5e &quot;caters&quot; to both styles in the core rules, by giving the grid based options and yet not assuming their use by default. In 4e for example, it is possible to run totm, but a lot of player powers make that either difficult or less satisfying to the player.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="happyhermit, post: 6860197, member: 6834463"] Thanks for responding, that does make a kind of sense to me now. The last part is what has always made the difference seem rather insignificant from my perspective. I will agree that in general 4e by default tended to put a bit more of the mechanics in the players hands than 5e does (though a GM could always overrule). On a slightly tangential note, this might explain to me why one particular player seemed to really have a hard time with 5e, they have for years struggled with "control issues" as they put it. Somehow I never really quite put the two things together, it makes perfect sense that the difference would be magnified for them. 5e does provide for some crazy levels of player control over the universe and/or story with the optional "plot points", but I'm not sure that would scratch the same itch at all. I find that fascinating, especially since early editions often quite obviously rewarded one for avoiding combat or solving things differently (ie; gold as XP). We ran, oh boy did we run, often around the corner to where we had either a means of escape or some sort of "traps" waiting. All that mattered was the treasure in most dungeon crawls, and we got it! More difficult that 5e, which I was stating probably fit the definition of "bigger tent" a lot better than 3e. 5e "caters" to both styles in the core rules, by giving the grid based options and yet not assuming their use by default. In 4e for example, it is possible to run totm, but a lot of player powers make that either difficult or less satisfying to the player. [/QUOTE]

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