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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6862689" data-attributes="member: 6696971">It was my understanding that the current discussion was about (a) the varying complexity/heft of combat engines in RPGs generally and (b) the implementation of weapon mechanics within those varying engines specifically?  Am I wrong there?If I'm not wrong, then what I was trying to do was discuss the way varying systems (Dogs, Powered By the Apoc with DW, and Cortex+ Heroic Fantasy - MHRP as  [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION] had specifically brought that one up) handle the above.You can have lethal outcomes with knives (and the like), it is just exceedingly rare due to the math of the system.  Post-scene, you roll all of your Fallout dice.  Knives (and the like) yield a d8 value.  You take the sum of your top two.  If you get 13-15, and you're in danger of perishing (one bad Body check away from moving to the next one).  If you roll 16 +, you're in grave danger (call it - HPs with one Death Save).  20 and you're dead.Oh there is definitely a choice.  But you have to understand (as I said above), the choice may very well be on a different axis than what D&D typically shoots for (with the reward cycle and thematic indifference often leading to murderhoboing).  You're one of God's Watchdogs.  Its your job to root out sin/demonic influence, mete out justice, and uphold The Faith.  If your niece has joined a gang of thieves and rabblerousers and your brother has his shotgun and is about to go on a rampage, you need to stop him (because that is murder).  But if words don't work, and fists don't work (because the resolution system and your decisions within it say so)...are you gonna pull out some heat and go to work and risk killing your brother?  That is going to be a tough call.  Also, you'll either have outright Relationship dice with him (decided during the character build phase or earned through play) or you'll get the default d6 to use because he is a blood relative.What is the follow-on conflict if you are bested by your brother in the street and he guns someone down?  What if you gun him down in the street?But if you're facing a street gang who is terrorizing a town or inspiring all manner of sin?  You may start with threats and then go straight to cocking the hammer on your Colt Dragoon.  Especially if they are violating a particularly volatile sin and it is one that you have a Relationship with.What is the follow-on conflict if you fail to root out this sin and mete out justice in this town (eg you Give - think the story loss evasion mechanics in 13th Age - rather than escalating in the conflict because it was moving toward lethality and quickly getting away from you)?  What if an innocent dies in the gunfire of a shootout on the street?  Regarding combat and weapons in DitV, that is the type of mental and emotional overhead players must manage.I'll engage with your commentary/questions on DW and C+ HF tomorrow.  Time for bed.</blockquote>

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