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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6862908" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Alright, back at it. I'm going to invert the rest and start with the bottom.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you say this works out that way at your table, then I'll take your word for it. But it is hard for me to imagine this working out in a game with feats (which pack so much potency and therefore narrowing of opportunity cost with respect to action value). A game with feats seems to tend to push play toward weapon/tactics specialization; Polearm Master/Sharpshooter, Bless, Help Action/Inspiration leveraging, etc. Magic items with speced weapon only further narrows things.</p><p></p><p>Now, a game without feats? I think a fighter spending ASIs on Str and Dex will naturally diversify their portfolio and broaden action value. This is the 5e that I ran and I saw a bit of switching from Range weapons to Reach weapons or to sidearm and shield. That mostly resembled my experience running Moldvay Basic so good on them (as I think that is what they were going for). This was similar to the game I ran with a Slayer with the general Expertise Feat (+1/tier all weapons and quick draw) and Alternate Advancement (DMG2) rules rather than + hit/damage to magic items.</p><p></p><p>The game of D&D where I've seen the most switching of weapons on a per combat and per adventuring day basis? 4e D&D with AA rules and the Weaponmaster fighter with (a) an actual golfbag of weapons (with their own tags/riders) and (b) the suite of powers that have varying boons/riders for each weapon group embedded within.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Again, I didn't know the discussion was solely about free-form descriptor systems. I thought that was one focused area of it, but not the totality. If that is the case, then only C+ applies.</p><p></p><p>It should seem pretty close to D&D. Dungeon World is pretty much a mash-up of Moldvay Basic and 4e using the Powered By the Apocalypse system (and some other indie inspiration). The thing that makes Dungeon World extremely different is it is utterly fiction first. It is not constrained at all by the artificiality of the wargame-inspired, strictly mechanical architecture that is (a) initiative, (b) rounds/turns, (c) action economy, (d) precise units for spatial orientation, (e) facing, (f) movement rate, etc.</p><p></p><p>Its tags orient players strictly around the fiction rather than a mechanical proxy and play moves from there (see my quick and dirty examples in the post you responded to). And with the lack of constraining wargame components, combats become much more dynamic without having to rely on the typically limiting mechanical tech as a proxy. With situations snowballing as they due to the basic procedures of play (and the nature of the tags and moves), you'll get varying weapons used in battle (sometimes used Awkwardly - another tag which would generate a take -1 and/or a 7-9 result at best) and varying difficult decisions with respect to weapon deployment/loss and having to reorient yourself spatially and tactically.</p><p></p><p>If you're interested in an extended example, start <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?365637-The-Fey-the-Far-and-the-Ugly-Space-In-Between&p=6486219&viewfull=1#post6486219" target="_blank">here</a>.</p><p></p><p>I'll answer your stuff about Cortex+ Heroic Fantasy later. Have to exit stage left.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 6862908, member: 6696971"] Alright, back at it. I'm going to invert the rest and start with the bottom. If you say this works out that way at your table, then I'll take your word for it. But it is hard for me to imagine this working out in a game with feats (which pack so much potency and therefore narrowing of opportunity cost with respect to action value). A game with feats seems to tend to push play toward weapon/tactics specialization; Polearm Master/Sharpshooter, Bless, Help Action/Inspiration leveraging, etc. Magic items with speced weapon only further narrows things. Now, a game without feats? I think a fighter spending ASIs on Str and Dex will naturally diversify their portfolio and broaden action value. This is the 5e that I ran and I saw a bit of switching from Range weapons to Reach weapons or to sidearm and shield. That mostly resembled my experience running Moldvay Basic so good on them (as I think that is what they were going for). This was similar to the game I ran with a Slayer with the general Expertise Feat (+1/tier all weapons and quick draw) and Alternate Advancement (DMG2) rules rather than + hit/damage to magic items. The game of D&D where I've seen the most switching of weapons on a per combat and per adventuring day basis? 4e D&D with AA rules and the Weaponmaster fighter with (a) an actual golfbag of weapons (with their own tags/riders) and (b) the suite of powers that have varying boons/riders for each weapon group embedded within. Again, I didn't know the discussion was solely about free-form descriptor systems. I thought that was one focused area of it, but not the totality. If that is the case, then only C+ applies. It should seem pretty close to D&D. Dungeon World is pretty much a mash-up of Moldvay Basic and 4e using the Powered By the Apocalypse system (and some other indie inspiration). The thing that makes Dungeon World extremely different is it is utterly fiction first. It is not constrained at all by the artificiality of the wargame-inspired, strictly mechanical architecture that is (a) initiative, (b) rounds/turns, (c) action economy, (d) precise units for spatial orientation, (e) facing, (f) movement rate, etc. Its tags orient players strictly around the fiction rather than a mechanical proxy and play moves from there (see my quick and dirty examples in the post you responded to). And with the lack of constraining wargame components, combats become much more dynamic without having to rely on the typically limiting mechanical tech as a proxy. With situations snowballing as they due to the basic procedures of play (and the nature of the tags and moves), you'll get varying weapons used in battle (sometimes used Awkwardly - another tag which would generate a take -1 and/or a 7-9 result at best) and varying difficult decisions with respect to weapon deployment/loss and having to reorient yourself spatially and tactically. If you're interested in an extended example, start [URL="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?365637-The-Fey-the-Far-and-the-Ugly-Space-In-Between&p=6486219&viewfull=1#post6486219"]here[/URL]. I'll answer your stuff about Cortex+ Heroic Fantasy later. Have to exit stage left. [/QUOTE]
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