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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 6864432" data-attributes="member: 6785785">I never said "proper" role of the DM. I said a return to how it was originally intended to be. I think that is perhaps more a statement of opinion than fact...but do you really disagree? Do you think 5E is not more like the early editions? I think it's pretty clear that was the intent of the design, and also seems to be a fairly commonly held opinion.Having said that, I wasn't passing judgment so much as observing. It's up to each individual to decide if the shift in 5E toward a DM role closer to that of earlier editions is a good or bad thing. Opinions will vary and people will like and should play whatever edition they want. More power to all. I personally like the shift, yes, but I don't think it's for the reasons you believe. My comments on trust between players and DM...obviously the game has to start, so both sides are kind of taking a leap. Hopefully, the trust will come. My view is that a shift from relying on strictly codified rules to relying on an individual to make rulings will require a level of trust. I don't think that assumption is out of line. Players who feel comfortable with their DM to rule fairly will ideally feel as comfortable as a player with the clearest, most precise rules set ever. On the other side of the table, the DM should recognize what it is that the players want from the game, and do everything possible to deliver that experience. All this talk of banning things and ruling against the player...I don't see the need for it. I think a little leeway need be given in some instances because the DM tends to create a lot of the content of any group's particular game world. But I don't think that leeway need come at the cost of what the players want. The players can and should be contributing to the game world as well. My comments about player options being potentially negative to the game...I stand by them. Yes, such options also bring good things to the game...I loved the concept of feats when introduced in 3E. I loved when we'd get a new book and there'd be new feats in there to pore over and put into use with a new character. They added a level of tact and craft to character design that was lacking from prior editions. It led to a wider diversity of character concept, and also in play style. These are good things.But they come with a cost. System bloat is an actual thing...it's not like I made it up. The more you add to a system, the more unwieldy it becomes. I don't even think that can be argued. I prefer the 5E approach of minimal content. I find there is a strong variety of options but it is not overwhelming, and is limited to the core books, and small sections of the adventures. The one exception is the Sword Coast Guide...but even that book, the mechanics are fairly minimal. As for my players wanting to use that material...it hasn't really come up yet. My players aren't even really aware of it all that I know of. They know about the SCAG, and one player has expressed some interest in the swashbuckler, so we'll see about that. But they don't know about the elemental spells in Princes of the Apocalypse, or the very small amount of stuff in the other adventure books. But I'd be fine with them using any of it. What I am thankful for with 5E is that we don't have a book coming out every month with a ton of options, that over time, become increasingly severe. I am happy for that not because it deprives my players of options, but because I don't want to have to buy a book a month to keep up. As it is, I am aware of what my players can do mechanically. I know what options the characters have. The next time I say "oh wow" because one of my players has done something cool, it won't be because they have a shiny new feat I'd never seen...it'll be nevause they did something new with what they already have.Finally, the portrait you paint of the 5E DM smiling while he breaks his players' toys....I don't think that's generally accurate. There are always exceptions, but that's a really broad brush to use. As with anything, there are examples of all kinds, and if your experience with 5E DMs has been as you describe, then that sucks and I am sorry to hear that. But we're not all cackling little egomaniacs with control issues.</blockquote>

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