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Thoughts of a 3E/4E powergamer on starting to play 5E
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6877941" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>It may well be. I don't have first-hand experience with either (except for one con game of VtM a long time ago now). What [MENTION=6775557]HomegrownHydra[/MENTION] says about VtM fits with my own readings - its mechanics, which are pretty traditional, don't deliver on its "revolutionary" promise.</p><p></p><p>But I can give a couple of examples of what I have in mind.</p><p></p><p>Rolemaster has social skills and social resolution mechanics baked into the system. They are, in some ways, comparable to those in 3E, but they are not identical: there is not quite the same hard-and-fast DC setting rules; and it is not possible for a character's skill bonus to grow largely without bound as in the case of 3E.</p><p></p><p>These features of 3E mean that it's Diplomacy rules are widely regarded as dysfunctional, and as a result are often not adhered to. On the other hand, the RM mechanics produce no such pressure to disregard them, and hence are capable of producing a degree of finality in resolution without resorting to combat. When this is combined with a host of other mechanics that work together as a synergistic package (eg a wider range of non-combat spells; a wide range of knowledge skills that allow players to gain access to relevant backstory in various ways, again avoiding some of the 3E issues), including the relative viciousness of RM combat compared to D&D, non-violent options (again, in my experience) tend to see more play.</p><p></p><p>5e is in many ways closer to this than 3E (eg bounded accuracy should solve some of the "grows without bound issues") but not in all ways.</p><p></p><p>There are other systems, more modern than Rolemaster, that allow social conflict to be final in almost just the same ways as D&D combat is final (ie reduction to zero of some score, which cannot be altered by any participant except via the mechanics of the game). 4e is one - but there are other features of 4e that tend to make combat the most salient form of resolving conflict.</p><p></p><p>Burning Wheel is another that I am GMing at a moment. It also has the RM-style skills, and the non-combat magic. For similar reasons to RM, but with even more mechanical robustness, it tends to make non-violent options salient in a way that I find is not the case for D&D.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 6877941, member: 42582"] It may well be. I don't have first-hand experience with either (except for one con game of VtM a long time ago now). What [MENTION=6775557]HomegrownHydra[/MENTION] says about VtM fits with my own readings - its mechanics, which are pretty traditional, don't deliver on its "revolutionary" promise. But I can give a couple of examples of what I have in mind. Rolemaster has social skills and social resolution mechanics baked into the system. They are, in some ways, comparable to those in 3E, but they are not identical: there is not quite the same hard-and-fast DC setting rules; and it is not possible for a character's skill bonus to grow largely without bound as in the case of 3E. These features of 3E mean that it's Diplomacy rules are widely regarded as dysfunctional, and as a result are often not adhered to. On the other hand, the RM mechanics produce no such pressure to disregard them, and hence are capable of producing a degree of finality in resolution without resorting to combat. When this is combined with a host of other mechanics that work together as a synergistic package (eg a wider range of non-combat spells; a wide range of knowledge skills that allow players to gain access to relevant backstory in various ways, again avoiding some of the 3E issues), including the relative viciousness of RM combat compared to D&D, non-violent options (again, in my experience) tend to see more play. 5e is in many ways closer to this than 3E (eg bounded accuracy should solve some of the "grows without bound issues") but not in all ways. There are other systems, more modern than Rolemaster, that allow social conflict to be final in almost just the same ways as D&D combat is final (ie reduction to zero of some score, which cannot be altered by any participant except via the mechanics of the game). 4e is one - but there are other features of 4e that tend to make combat the most salient form of resolving conflict. Burning Wheel is another that I am GMing at a moment. It also has the RM-style skills, and the non-combat magic. For similar reasons to RM, but with even more mechanical robustness, it tends to make non-violent options salient in a way that I find is not the case for D&D. [/QUOTE]
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