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Message: <blockquote data-quote="thecasualoblivion" data-source="post: 6878218" data-attributes="member: 59096">I view them as separate. I don't care for the meatgrinder levels, and as far as I'm concerned they are something to either gloss over or preferably skip altogether. They aren't a part of D&D I care about, and when I talk about D&D I'm invariably not talking about them. So when I'm talking about heroic, that part of the game isn't going to be a part of it.As for the definition of heroic, you could look at it as something you do or who you are. I look at it as who you are. D&D PCs are special, a cut above the norm. 1st level isn't a farm boy, it's the day after graduating Ninja school. The farm boy isn't a PC, unless they have uncanny natural ability on par with having graduated ninja school, in which case they aren't really a farm boy anyway.Given that starting off weak and fragile is a non-consideration to me, the issue of mundane vs heroic is a matter of what a PC can do.As for heroic/mundane and codified vs freedom actions being separate, I can see your point but to me they are connected. This is because I don't find the mundane in RPGs to be appealing, and in my experience freeform play tends towards the mundane side of things. Maybe there are DMs somewhere where this is less true but I haven't gamed with them.</blockquote>